Currently reading: Honda joins CO2 emissions pool with Tesla and FCA
Honda attempts to avoid EU fines by pooling emissions credits with EV bestsellers Tesla
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2 mins read
2 November 2020

Honda has joined Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) in efforts to avoid EU emissions fines by pooling its fleet with Tesla this year. 

Revealed in a European Commission filing from last week, it's the latest company to declare its intent to join together with another manufacturer to help meet the tough 95g/km fleet average CO2 target and avoid hefty fines. 

Rules dictate that companies that have earned a high number of emissions credits (supercredits) for selling low-CO2 models, such as EVs, may sell them on to others struggling to meet their CO2 targets. Pooling these credits allows car makers to count their combined fleets as one. 

It’s reported that Tesla has made more than $1.4 billion (£1.08bn) between 2016 and 2018 by selling these credits to other US manufacturers. FCA avoided billions in fines by spending hundreds of millions to join Tesla’s EU pool and now Honda is doing the same - although a figure is yet to be disclosed. 

The European Commission document suggests that Honda has registered only around 1000 examples of its E electric supermini in Western Europe since it was introduced earlier this year. That figure isn’t enough to generate enough supercredits for Honda to avoid EU fines. 

Last week, Ford announced plans to form a CO2 pool with Volvo and Polestar to avoid fines. Toyota and Mazda are expected to do similar, while Renault has opened up its CO2 pool to other manufacturers. Meanwhile, the Volkswagen Group has joined forces with SAIC and its subsidiary, MG. 

READ MORE

Inside the industry: how selling emissions credits helps Tesla grow

Renault opens up CO2 emissions pool to help other manufacturers

EU pushes for tougher 2030 CO2 targets for car industry

 

 

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ralphsmall 5 November 2020

Paying competitors for EV credits

This whole EU game just Proves what complete drongos the EU bureaucrats are. Why anybody allowed these faceless loops to take over the free trade area and dictate how their version of how everyone should live never ceases to amaze me .

The Apprentice 3 November 2020

Honda could do it themselves

Honda could do it themselves if they tried, CRV and Jazz are hybrid but with small battery, just a bit bigger battery and a charge socket away from doing the WLTP with CO2 way below 95, enough left over to carry some of the other models.
artill 3 November 2020

The Apprentice wrote:

The Apprentice wrote:

Honda could do it themselves if they tried, CRV and Jazz are hybrid but with small battery, just a bit bigger battery and a charge socket away from doing the WLTP with CO2 way below 95, enough left over to carry some of the other models.

I am sure you are right, but i doubt Honda take Europe too seriously. Their sales here are tiny compared to the rest of the world, where tax incentives to buy PHEVs dont exist. Its presumably cheaper to pay the fines (or give the money to Tesla) than develope cars for our tax system.

Vertigo 3 November 2020

The Apprentice wrote:

The Apprentice wrote:

Honda could do it themselves if they tried, CRV and Jazz are hybrid but with small battery, just a bit bigger battery and a charge socket away from doing the WLTP with CO2 way below 95, enough left over to carry some of the other models.

fellwalker 2 November 2020

Cheating the intent

Should not be allowed. Honda and FCA lose the incentive to improve so we all suffer from extra emissions and CO2 and NOX 

TStag 2 November 2020

fellwalker wrote:

fellwalker wrote:

Should not be allowed. Honda and FCA lose the incentive to improve so we all suffer from extra emissions and CO2 and NOX 

Tesla and other start ups receive a cash injection needed to finance new models and replace those car makers that don't get with the program. Some brands like Jaguar have a tremedous opportunity here. If Jaguar can go fully electric for example, they might lose money whilst the market develops but Land Rover will happily prop them up if it means they don't get fined. Meanwhile in JLR's case, Jaguar is developing the components future Land Rover's need. So it's a win win. 

scrap 2 November 2020

They are giving hundreds of

They are giving hundreds of millions of Euros to competitors. I think the incentive to change is big enough!

I can't believe this is what the EU intended. European car manufacturers are subsidising the production of batteries abroad - batteries that require huge amounts of carbon equivalents to make (albeit they then enable emissions free vehicles). This is all wrong. CO2 emissions are still rising globally and this deal might even accelerate that, in the short term at least.

If batteries can be made in a way that doesn't cause so much pollution, then I am all for EVs. But there is an argument here that the legislation is running ahead of the technology and it's causing real harm.

Vertigo 3 November 2020

scrap wrote:

scrap wrote:

They are giving hundreds of millions of Euros to competitors. I think the incentive to change is big enough!

I can't believe this is what the EU intended. European car manufacturers are subsidising the production of batteries abroad - batteries that require huge amounts of carbon equivalents to make (albeit they then enable emissions free vehicles). This is all wrong. CO2 emissions are still rising globally and this deal might even accelerate that, in the short term at least.

If batteries can be made in a way that doesn't cause so much pollution, then I am all for EVs. But there is an argument here that the legislation is running ahead of the technology and it's causing real harm.

EVs have a much smaller lifetime carbon footprint even after factoring in manufacturing emissions. So the #1 priority needs to be converting car buyers from combustion to electric. Legislation around manufacturing will also be helpful, but as cleaning up battery production will have a smaller benefit than switching powertrain types, that's not so high on the priority list.

xxxx 3 November 2020

Nothing is 100%

scrap wrote:

T...

If batteries can be made in a way that doesn't cause so much pollution, then I am all for EVs. But there is an argument here that the legislation is running ahead of the technology and it's causing real harm.

yet the battery in your phone and laptop etc are fine to make and buy. How about the oil currently being mined and refined in such place as Saudi Arabia. 

IainS 3 November 2020

scrap wrote:

scrap wrote:

They are giving hundreds of millions of Euros to competitors. [...]

I can't believe this is what the EU intended. 

 

Yeah, not only that but it is anti-competitive because those companies that are giving money to Tesla have less money for their own R&D.

And as you say, it's almost like the EU is giving State Aid - to non-EU manufacturing!

mpls 3 November 2020

fellwalker wrote:

fellwalker wrote:

Should not be allowed. Honda and FCA lose the incentive to improve so we all suffer from extra emissions and CO2 and NOX 

 

Co2 ony  nothign to do with Nox..

In fact this whole Co2 credit thing is a joke..

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