Talks with Daimler could lead to Aston Martin using Mercedes-Benz engines, components and platforms

Daimler, owners of the Mercedes-Benz brand, is reportedly in ‘early stage’ talks with Aston Martin about supplying components and working with the British car maker on technical assistance.

The talks involve Aston Martin bosses and the two major shareholders, Investindustrial and the Kuwaiti-listed Investment Dar.

A Daimler spokeswoman was quoted as saying that no decisions about potential collaboration have been made, but that “both sides know and respect each other very much”.

While buying in base engines from Mercedes makes sense, any future collaboration could go as far as platform sharing, with the current SLS supercar being an ideal potential candidate.

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9 May 2013

Why not go with a british engine, the engine in the McLaren is a smaller engine but puts out more BHP.

9 May 2013

owenmahamilton wrote:

Why not go with a british engine, the engine in the McLaren is a smaller engine but puts out more BHP.

But it doesn't sound even slightly as good as a gutsy AMG V8, which would suit Astons much better.

9 May 2013

BMW have Rolls Royce

Volkswagen Group have Bentley

Now it seems Mercedes-Benz will have Aston Martin.

TBC

9 May 2013

I would imagine that the shareholders would be happy with a new range, charging the maximum they can get away with for the minimum financial input, and a deal with MB could offer just such an opportunity. It all comes down to margins.

9 May 2013

It's an eminently sensible move for Aston Martin, and well overdue.

It does beg the question, would Aston Martin's current V12 models move to AMG twin-turbo V8s or would they be able to access the V12s used by AMG 65 models, or even the largely-bespoke V12 unit provided for Pagani?

Hopefully any collaboration with Mercedes-Benz would go beyond engines and include other technologies being made available as well.  Hope they don't take the gearboxes, though.

9 May 2013

Well lets be honest, Aston Martins V12 is actually 2 Ford V6's spliced together, and its V8 is a previous generation Jaguar unit, so its not exactly as if they are going to replace genuine Aston Martin engines now is it.

9 May 2013

Coincedence? Probably, but you can't expect new AM's to drive like they have done over the last decade - whether you liked them or not.

9 May 2013

Aston Martin needs a big brother to look after it.   I just wish that Merc, or another top brand, where the actual owners rather than investment house.   Then they'd have easier access to all the new kit.

However, Aston Martin has to keep to it's core values and keep itself distinctive from any Merc; no matter how much is shared.

But the biggest challenge is the UK journalists.   One will write how it's just a Mercedes engine etc and dismisses the car because of it.   They did it with the V12 engine "just being two Fords stuck together" yet we know which one you'd rather have!

And for the record, the Aston Martin V12 is the most wonderful engine I've ever driven.   The step up from the V8 in the likes of the Audis is amazing.

9 May 2013

Citytiger, your comments about the current Aston engines are simply not correct. The V12 is based on the architecture of the Ford V6, but to say that the V12 is "actually 2 Ford V6s spliced together" is not accurate. They started with the architecture of the V6 and then designed a V12. Also, no car other than an Aston Martin has ever used that V12. 

Similarly, to state that the Aston "V8 is a previous generation Jaguar unit" is also untrue. Again, the design of the Aston engine began with the Jaguar design, but nothing is shared. The 4.3 Aston V8 block was cast to the same specs as the Jaguar's, but then machined differently so that they are not interchangeable, and the 4.7 V8 block is its own item. Further, the Aston engines have their own bespoke crank, rods, pistons, rings, heads, cams, valves, etc. -- everything is unique to Aston. Again, the V8 is not used in anything but an Aston. To me, they're Aston Martin engines (unlike, for example, the "Bentley" W12 and 4.0 V8, which are VW-Audi units "tuned" differently for each application).

Dropping M-B engies into Astons would be replacing Aston engines with someone else's.

Part of what makes the current cars special (with one glaring exception), IMO, is that they are NOT based on someone else's platform and that they use their own engines. To be clear, I have no objection to the use of Benz engines as a "base" from which to start the design of an Aston engine in the same way as the current V8 is "based" on a Jaguar engine.  That said, if I want a Benz, I’ll buy a Benz. I bought an Aston because I wanted an Aston, not something disguised as an Aston or modified into one.  An "Aston" that is a Benz (or whatever else) underneath is emphatically NOT a car I will want to own, no matter how much they tell me how different it is from the other cars based on that same underlying platform.

9 May 2013

Speedraser wrote:

The V12 is based on the architecture of the Ford V6, but to say that the V12 is "actually 2 Ford V6s spliced together" is not accurate. 

When Aston brought out that engine I remember Penny Mallory (Ch 4 show Driven) dismissing the car because it was just "two Mondeo engines stuck together".   Similar comments were made by a variety of journalists.   It's shockingly bad form for these journalists to have unfairly criticised sound engineering sense.

Taking what Ford had already done with the block and adding to it can only be sensible.   You're starting with a block which has had significant research and design input, then making an Aston engine from it.   Aston did this with the orignal DB7 straight six, using a Jaguar block.   Jaguar then never used that block so it became unique to Aston.   But with the V12 it was more; the block was always going to be unique to Aston.   All they used was the knowledge of a reliable block that has a huge investment already put in to it.

Having driven the V12 I can assure you that it doesn't feel like any Ford I've ever driven!

As for Mercedes engines, I have to admit I've never driven one.   However, as long as there's a uniqueness to the Aston engines I see no problems with them using their services.

Platform sharing goes on with several brands.   None worse than Audio / VW / Seat / Skoda / Porsche / Bentley.   The cars they build on top of those platforms tend to be very different; platform sharing can still give a unique experience.   However, I believe that Aston Martin for their GTs should only use Aston Martin platforms.   But if they were to consider doing an SUV that would be a different matter.   Even if they did a luxuary saloon.   Lagonda?

 

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