Ford will debut the Fiesta ECOnetic hatchback at the London motor show
23 June 2008

The new Ford Fiesta ECOnetic will be unveiled at next month's London motor show, a company source has revealed.The ultra-efficient, stylish Fiesta hatchback will produce less than 100g/km of CO2, equivalent to more than 70mpg, pitching it directly against the VW Polo Bluemotion as the most fuel-efficient family car in the UK.The new Ford Fiesta weighs around 50kg less than the previous model and will be powered by a 1.4-litre turbodiesel engine, built at Ford's wind-powered plant in Dagenham.The production-ready Ford Fiesta, which was revealed at the Geneva motor show in March, bears a striking resemblance to the Verve concept car, though it has not retained the frameless doors of the concept.

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23 June 2008

[quote Autocar]built at Ford's wind-powered plant in Dagenham...[/quote]

What do they do when there's no wind? Anyone know? Have they also got ruddy great big batteries on site? Or do they fall back on national grid supply? If so how green is that? Do they balance out the proclaimed greeness by selling surplus generation to the grid when the wind is high and the factory not running?

Also, from a quick look at Ford's and Ecotricity's spiel on this initiative one can see that the utilisation of the two, soon to be three turbines is particularly woeful:

two 1.8MW capacity turbines(3.6MW combined) generate 6.7 million kWh annually. Assuming 24 hour, 7 day running, 365 days a year that's a 20(21.2)% or so utilisation. That's even less than the typcally claimed 25% utilisation for current turbines. Dagenham/Thames estuary being east facing is not a high wind location. Wonder what the payback period is on this project?

http://www.ecotricity.co.uk/projects/Ford/plan_ford.html

23 June 2008

Loath er,

I'm a bit confused about your post because you are appear to doubt Ford's efforts this in area but without anything to back it up, all your criticisms seem to be in the form of questions you don't know the answer to;

From the Ford website:

Ford's Dagenham Diesel Centre, completed in 2004, is home to London's first large-scale wind power project. The project consists of two wind turbines, each 85 meters tall with 35-meter blades. During the first full year of the project's operation (2005), the turbines generated 6 million kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, more than enough to power the Centre. The Dagenham Diesel Centre produces high-performance, fuel-saving diesel engines, which are assembled in sterile conditions, as required for the latest high-precision common-rail fuel and turbo systems.

The Dagenham Diesel Centre expanded during 2006, and it will expand further in 2007. Construction of a third wind turbine, to be completed in early 2008, will add more than 3 million kWh of annual production, so that the Dagenham project will represent half of all planned wind power capacity in the London region.

Are you saying Ford are lying to the public and their shareholders Loather? If so, what evidence do you have for such an assertion?

One factory that represents half of all the wind power capability in London would appear to be rather impressive but if it's a lie then do tell all as such a thing needs 'outing' frankly. As at 1 June 2008 there are 174 UK grid-connected wind farms containing 2,012 wind turbines with the capacity to generate 2529 MW. Is this all a waste of time then?

From The Telegraph:

The use of wind power at Ford's Dagenham plant is saving over 6,000 tonnes of CO2 a year, while nearly twice as much waste has been diverted from landfill sites, the manufacturer said.

Wind turbines that were installed at the plant over three years ago have prevented the emission of 6,500 tonnes of CO2 every year and other eco-efficient processes have prevented over 12,600 tonnes of waste from being disposed of by landfill.

The work that Ford is doing at Dagenham was recognised with a nomination at the Business in the Community awards this month. Acknowledgment has also been made of Ford's 1.4/1.6-litre engine line by the Business Commitment to the Environment group.

Stuart Burn, technical specialist with the automaker, said: "We are delighted that our eco-efficient production at Dagenham is recognised. Not only are we minimising Dagenham's environmental impact, we are also helping the consumer.

"Ford Fiesta models powered by these new 1.4- and 1.6-litre engines emit under 120g CO2/km – putting them in the £35 road tax category."

Output at Dagenham is set to reach a million engines a year by 2009. The plant is powered by 3.6-megawatt capacity turbines which produce over six million kilowatt-hours of renewable electricity.

The figures being bandied about here would need to be bulletproof I'd say given the quantities involved and the ease at which FMC could be disproved when claiming to offset the emissions of the vehicles compared to the saving on emissions in actually creating the engines in the first place at the plant.
It's windy enough for someone to consider the following:
From This Is London:
Plans to build the world's largest wind farm in the Thames Estuary moved a step closer today.

Ministers are expected to give permission for 341 turbines to be placed along a 144-mile stretch off the Margate coast, and for a smaller 100-turbine farm off the Thanet coast.

The Department for Trade and Industry says the two projects will make a "significant contribution" to the Government's target of sourcing 10 per cent of energy from renewable sources by 2010.

However, the £1.5 billion Margate scheme still needs to overcome objections from Swale Borough Council which has objected to the building of a substation near the historic village of Cleve Hill.

The consortium behind the bid, London Array, says it has changed its plans to address concerns about the construction and siting of the substation.

If permission is granted, the Margate farm would generate enough electricity for 750,000 central London homes. The first turbines would be in place by 2008 with the scheme completed by 2011.

Experts have estimated it will save 1.9 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year by replacing coal and gas-fired power stations, and the projects have won the approval of Friends of the Earth despite concerns about the impact on the coastal landscape. But some conservation groups still oppose them.

Mark Hedges of Country Life magazine said: "Wind farms create a low hum which drives locals we've spoken to wild.” London Array has warned that if construction does not start soon the project may be delayed because so many engineers are being sucked into the 2012 Olympic scheme.

So how hard can it be for FMC to simply point their windmills to the west where the prevailing wind comes from in the part of the world? I presume it's fully adjustable anyway but that said vertical axis turbines do not need orientation into the wind, although the earlier versions, sometimes known as ‘eggbeater’ turbines required a power source to start rotating because of their high torque. More recent innovations have helical blade designs that have low torque and can operate without external power. Vertical axis turbines are particularly suited to small wind power applications because they have a small environmental impact and no noise, but have not yet scaled up to the 5MW + turbine size of horizontal axis designs.* (*source - renewable energy centre)

Can't see the problem really.

23 June 2008

[quote loather]
Also, from a quick look at Ford's and Ecotricity's spiel on this initiative one can see that the utilisation of the two, soon to be three turbines is particularly woeful:

two 1.8MW capacity turbines(3.6MW combined) generate 6.7 million kWh annually. Assuming 24 hour, 7 day running, 365 days a year that's a 20(21.2)% or so utilisation. That's even less than the typcally claimed 25% utilisation for current turbines.[/quote]

Poor 'utilisation' is just a fact of life with wind turbines. From the Danish Wind Industry Association website:

"The Capacity Factor Paradox

Although one would generally prefer to have a large capacity factor, it may not always be an economic advantage. This is often confusing to people used to conventional or nuclear technology.
In a very windy location, for instance, it may be an advantage to use a larger generator with the same rotor diameter (or a smaller rotor diameter for a given generator size). This would tend to lower the capacity factor (using less of the capacity of a relatively larger generator), but it may mean a substantially larger annual production, as you can verify using the Power calculator on this web site.
Whether it is worthwhile to go for a lower capacity factor with a relatively larger generator, depends both on wind conditions, and on the price of the different turbine models of course.
Another way of looking at the capacity factor paradox is to say, that to a certain extent you may have a choice between a relatively stable power output (close to the design limit of the generator) with a high capacity factor - or a high energy output (which will fluctuate) with a low capacity factor."

23 June 2008

Nom de plum,

Slow down fella. I asked a question, that's all. 'What happens when there's no wind?' I quoted their generation figure against capacity - 21%. I pondered what the payback period was. Again, that was all.

The British Isles has westerly/south-westerly prevailing winds. That's all I meant by general east facing/east of UK , as in Thames estuary location. This may help to explain the sub-25%(typical average generation figure) achieved. That's all. I was not addressing turbine facing.

As to the off-shore wind farms around London, the largest of these the London Array has just had Shell pull out.

If you can materially respond or add to the foregoing questions, observations, then do, otherwise spare me and others reading this the reams of 'cut and paste', which only reiterate the bald facts, in your first response.

23 June 2008

[quote loather]

Nom de plum,

Slow down fella. I asked a question, that's all. 'What happens when there's no wind?' I quoted their generation figure against capacity - 21%. I pondered what the payback period was. Again, that was all.

The British Isles has westerly/south-westerly prevailing winds. That's all I meant by general east facing/east of UK , as in Thames estuary location. This may help to explain the sub-25%(typical average generation figure) achieved. That's all. I was not addressing turbine facing.

As to the off-shore wind farms around London, the largest of these the London Array has just had Shell pull out.

If you can materially respond or add to the foregoing questions, observations, then do, otherwise spare me and others reading this the reams of 'cut and paste', which only reiterate the bald facts, in your first response.

[/quote]

Loather, then the answer to the question is that it must work otherwise FMC, a global company with a bottom line, would not bother now would they?

And as for your last paragraph, spare me please, we've been here before and all I'm going to opine is that it's a tried and trusted method of not answering the question. Let's not dance that dance because it seems to me that FMC are doing something and producing something quite extraordinary over in Daggers, the figures are astonishing and need to be read in context to understand the scale of what they are doing.

Moreover, I hate Ford products, the 2 C-Max's I had were the worst cars I have ever owned with the worst dealers you could imagine.

But the work they've done here should be applauded. Now if EVERYONE acted like this what would the result be?

And that's were the debate got locked last time.

:-)

23 June 2008

Good to see another relatively important debut at the London Show. Hopefully the rest of the new Fiestas will be there too! Well done, Ford.

"The creative adult is the child who survived."

24 June 2008

[quote Autocar]powered by a 1.4-litre turbodiesel engine, built at Ford's wind-powered plant in Dagenham diesel engine plant[/quote]

To get this wind-powered self-sufficiency of Ford's Dagenham plant into perspective compare this to the power needs of a high vertical integration plant like Ford's own Cologne engine plant or VW Kassel's aluminium foundry, casting and machining operations. The Kassel plant consumes 515,000 megawatthours of electricity in a year plus 209,000 megawatthours equivalent in heating(Waerme). That's almost eighty times more than the 6.7 million kilowatthours that Dagenham consumes in electricity requirement alone. Staggering! Would need a minimum of two hundred 1.8MW rated wind turbines just to cover the electricity reqt. for the Kassel plant.

source for VW Kassel's power consumption:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagenwerk_Kassel

24 June 2008

Hello JJB. Welcome back. We missed you.

24 June 2008

[quote loather]

[quote Autocar]powered by a 1.4-litre turbodiesel engine, built at Ford's wind-powered plant in Dagenham diesel engine plant[/quote]

To get this wind-powered self-sufficiency of Ford's Dagenham plant into perspective compare this to the power needs of a high vertical integration plant like Ford's own Cologne engine plant or VW Kassel's aluminium foundry, casting and machining operations. The Kassel plant consumes 515,000 megawatthours of electricity in a year plus 209,000 megawatthours equivalent in heating(Waerme). That's almost eighty times more than the 6.7 million kilowatthours that Dagenham consumes in electricity requirement alone. Staggering! Would need a minimum of two hundred 1.8MW rated wind turbines just to cover the electricity reqt. for the Kassel plant.

source for VW Kassel's power consumption:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagenwerk_Kassel

[/quote]

It's clearly do-able, so why not?

5 July 2008

This new Fiesta is going to be good, as a memebr of the tdciforum we have a lot of members with current Fiestas espcially the 1.6tdci model. Now they remap to around 130bhp pretty easilly and if they are free to tax game on, will surely wipe the floor with the Polo Bluemotion and its old tech engine.

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