Fri
Nov 06 2009

Size matters for the BMW X1 and Skoda Yeti

Hilton Holloway
Although I haven’t got hold of the keys yet, I’ve spent more than a few minutes staring at the BMW X1, which is currently sitting in the Autocar car park.

I can’t quite get over the size of the X1. It’s barely taller than a Scirocco and even looks dainty – in a kind of stretched wheel base way – compared to a VW Golf. But this lunchtime, it was positively dwarfed next to the 5-series GT.



Somewhat like the Skoda Yeti, the X1’s designers have managed to carve out a lot of interior space in a short car and without have to raise the roof height to ridiculous levels.

The X1 and Yeti might have achieved something quite rare in the car industry – coming up with a genuinely fresh take on the two-box vehicle.

I’m not sure how much off-road ability the X1 has, but I have driven the Yeti extensively – on- and off-road. Its size, relatively low weight and short overhangs meant it was genuinely impressive off-road.

Add in the optional hill descent control and rapid-fire Haldex 4 all-wheel drive system, and this machine is the truly all-terrain. Do you need anything bigger, especially, if never more than four up?

Arguably you don’t. Having spent the last few months driving an Insignia – which is a big chunk of car – I became convinced that 95 per cent of the time I would be no worse off in current Golf even on longer journeys.

It’s the same for the X1. Autocar staffers who drive it praised its ride and handling and general sense of well being. Do you need an X3 or X5? As a family car in urban situations, the X1 is probably the better choice.



But there is one big hurdle with these small cars. Price. Both the Yeti and X1 have big price tags. The entry-level rear-drive X1 is £22,600 and an all-wheel drive 2.0d X1 is £25,510. And a basic 2.0-litre, all-wheel drive, diesel Yeti is £17,220.

One can understand why carmakers do not want to sell clever, upscale, small cars for small prices. But can they really convince the public to separate price from space?

Computer makers failed to stop the netbook revolution. Once, a laptop was a premium product. Today, a mini laptop can cost just £150 a development the industry calls a ‘race to the bottom’.

Carmakers, by contrast, are desperate to avoid the same fate. They are determined to ensure that premium small cars fetch premium prices. Car buyers, however, may disagree.

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About Hilton Holloway

Has two product design degrees and used to design mountain bikes. Realised that cars were a lot more interesting in 1990, and has been writing about them ever since.

Comments

richardhead November 6, 2009 7:31 PM

"can they really convince the public to separate price from space?"

- YES. The Yeti and X1 are nailed-on as market runaway hits.

You can tell you're a product design man and not a product planning man. A blind man could tell you that BMW and Skoda will have no problem shifting these baby SUV/Crossovers. Otherwise, why would L/Rover bother planning a £35k upwards 4.4m baby R/Rover crossover? Think about it.

Your comparison with computers is false. It's no good making that comparison. A 4.2-4.4m car like the Yeti or X1 basically takes the same man hours, materials and facilities to build as a ~4.6m X3 or 3-series, so why shouldn't the maker charge roughly comparable prices? They're not bloody charities working to Moore's Law in a car factory.

The biggest problen for BMW with the X1 is not market failure through over-pricing but the taking away of buyers from the 3-series, more so even than from the about to be replaced X3. BMW apparently are rushing forward the development of the 3-series successor(F30?) from 2012 originally to sometime in 2011, shortening the normal 7 year or so model cycle. Part or most of the reason may be to freshen up the offer to differentiate it further from the X1's lower-end appeal to current 3-series saloon and estate customers.

ThwartedEfforts November 6, 2009 7:35 PM

Which staffers praised the X1's ride? It was the biggest negative listed in Matt Prior's published review ("The X1 rides on run-flat tyres [...] so it's knobbly over low-speed sharp inputs – expansion joints, drain covers and the like. It's not particularly compliant"). I've not been in an X1 but the Yeti was something really impressive in that department - while I won't look as thrusting and as successful, I'd take the Skoda over the angular German piglet for comfort alone.

You do make a good point that both the X1 and the Yeti seem almost needlessly expensive - £20K or thereabouts and yet they're barely two paces long. However, and space issues aside, in saying that you would be "no worse off in a Golf" instead of an Insignia, are you not merely proving the point of badge engineering here - that fashion wins out over value every time? Need I remind you that the VW remains a thoroughly expensive car *before* you start adding the options which bring it to the level of non-premium rivals like the Vauxhall.

In short, why would you choose it? And in answering that you can see why the X1 will sell by the bucket load.

richardhead November 6, 2009 8:22 PM

@thwartedefforts - do you really believe £20k is 'needlessly expensive'?. Come on now, this cry that goes up from you and many others over the extortionate prices charged by VW, BMW, Vauxhall(new Astra)... is tiresome and more importantly utterly false. UK now has near the lowest car prices in Europe. Equivalent before VAT euro prices are typically pound sterling price times 1.2-1.4, whereas the exchange rate is around £1:€1.10.

The pound has been weakened deliberately by the British govt., not least through the printing of 200bn pounds. Simple fact is for each pound printed each existing pound becomes worth less. And as result for exporters to Britain to maintain their received converted revenues prices in UK must rise. So far form being needlessly overpriced products like the Yeti and X1 are borderline uneconomic to their makers, once converted back to euros. If anything this will get worse as the Bank of England continues to create money. You may well end up like Iceland, where it becomes totally uneconomic to import some goods due to the collapsed value of the local currency. So my advice, if considering a Yeti, X1, generic 'extortionately overpriced German/German-owned brand', buy it now before they are genuinely forced to raise their prices.

The Apprentice November 6, 2009 8:27 PM

Yeti was initially available at £4000 off, currently easily available at £2500 off, if they can afford to do that on a new model there must be a few quid still in selling them.

ThwartedEfforts November 6, 2009 11:09 PM

@horseandcart If you could quit peering into your doom and gloom crystal ball for one second, the argument is that £17K for your boggo Skoda is a lot of money in anyone's currency.

JackB November 7, 2009 12:47 AM

It's actually true that the X1 can be genuinely comfortable, because in entry-level spec it's spared those idiotic run-flats. So keep your X1 simple and you'll be greeted with a smooth-riding BMW.

Old Toad November 7, 2009 5:42 AM

I reckon BMW deliberately made the X1 seriously ugly to scare all the other yummy mummies off so mumsie can park it when dropping her farquahars off at the prep school.

Joking aside whoever desgned  the front and rear valances needs a kick up the arse. However This is subjective of course but I think the Yeti is a much more resolved design. The beemer looks like it cant decide what to be a touring or a 4x4 and ends up being scaringly ugly as a result.

optimal_909 November 7, 2009 8:01 AM

I think there are a lot of cars dwarfed by the 5-series GT, it is a 7-series MPV afterall...

richardhead November 7, 2009 9:14 AM

thwartedefforts, you invariably talk bollox but this time you've outdone yourself. £17k is chickenfeed in anyone's terms. Twerps like you think that insisting such cars as Skodas and Bimmers are 'needlessly expensive' or 'horrendously overpriced' will gull the many impressionable saps reading these pages to believing that the evil Krauts are price-gouging the poor set-upon Brits. Absolute bollox. You and your constant agenda to constantly kick seven bells out of any Teutonic brand or even German owned brand, like Skoda, is painfully and utterly transparent to everyone but your oh-so-clever self. You think you're oh so clever, but like your moniker all you convey is the missed opportunity for birth control and the lamentations any parent would have to see what a bitter pillock came out. Knock it off pal. You've been given the facts. The Yeti is not overpriced - it's a current gen Golf platform, four wheel drive with latest gen common rail diesel and direct injection petrols in a smart, practical body for around £3-5k less than the comparable VW branded car and good value in absolute terms. Smart buyers will see the inherent value, plus the neat attractive shape. You on the other hand think your whining lies over 'but, but it's MASSIVELY overpriced!' will scare away the potential punters. You're a busted flush thwartedbirthcontrol; you're exposed for what you are; a lemon-sucking, tiresome troll, with huge resentment against the German marques and presumably German anythinPack it in mate, you're fooling no one with an IQ in double figures.

The X1 likewise is excellent value both in comparative terms to a similar 3-series estate, which it undercuts markedly in price, and in absolute terms. All other reviews have scored it a huge hit. Get over it mate, it's another hit for the loathed Krauts, after their massive hit with the original X5. As I said the main problem for the X1 will not be lack of customers through 'needless overpricing' but shortage of supply and cannibalisation of 3-series Touring sales and X3 sales, although the new X3 in 2010 should distance itself further away in size and spec.

Lastly, 'transparentagenda', I can't wait to say when the LRX is launched. Will the great, self-declared sage pronounce the X1 sized baby R/Rover to be 'needlessly overpriced' or even 'horrendously overpriced' when the Freelander cut down chassis based cramped crossover appears with a starting price tag of £35k(two Yetis worth)? Will he ****!

Chas Hallett November 7, 2009 10:23 AM

As usual you make some great comments. But there's no place on this forum for that sort of personal abuse. Stop it

HiltonH November 7, 2009 11:45 AM

RichardH

Inside your postings are very interesting nuggets, but your piece also seems to agrees with the proposition of the blog.

"As I said the main problem for the X1 will not be lack of customers through 'needless overpricing' but shortage of supply and cannibalisation of 3-series Touring sales and X3 sales, although the new X3 in 2010 should distance itself further away in size and spec."

Which is my point. BMW wants to drive up the average transaction price of its cars. Although it launches a clever car like the X1 - which does indeed cost a similar amount to produce as a bigger BMW - it risks reducing sales of the potentially more profitable X3 and 3-series.

Which is why I said that premium small cars can never be cheap. Such a policy could be difficult to square when punters - such as when they buy a house - equate price with square meters.

fuzzybear November 7, 2009 3:57 PM

I think we need to get away from the mindset of thinking something small should automatically be cheaper. I agree with Hilton Holloway, most people, most of the time really don't need anything bigger than a Golf/Yeti/X1. I drive a pretty large car and one of the things that detracts from the driving pleasure at times is the sheer size of it. In the UK on our road network,the best cars really are in small packages because you're able to relax and enjoy the experience. Im happy to think a premium car can be smaller not bigger- but it's a mindset many people can't accept and will always think the logical progress of something better and more expensive should equate to something big.

mags8733 November 7, 2009 6:58 PM

Can some one tell me how long and how wide an X1 is?  To me it look mid sized...is it as long as a 1 series or a 3 series.  The Yeti is Golf sized.

Look forward to facts on length and width

ThwartedEfforts November 8, 2009 1:49 AM

@horseandcart - are you paid by the word?

BMW have made every effort to raise the invoiced price of their cars for years, and in N. America they've pumped the numbers more than any other brand. In 2008 despite a 12% drop in sales, prices in the U.S. were up 1% - they jumped 7% two years before that. The idea it's all down to exchange rates and weak currency is twaddle the likes of which I would expect from nobody else but you.

And what is the baseline for 'value' in all this, exactly? You speak a great deal of it but only in terms of other premium models: the X1 is 'excellent value' compared to a 3-Series Touring and so on (the latter being lighter, wider, longer, less thirsty, less polluting, with more boot space, a tighter turning circle, etc.).

Hilton nailed it in his first post: small cars with posh badges have relatively, needlessly, artificially, call-it-what-you-want-ly, big price tags for no reason other than the manufacturer wanting it that way. End of story. If you want to spend your time getting personal and linking the validity of this argument with your opinion of me then go for it. Dilligaf.

Incidentally, for a tiresome, misinformed old codger who comes up with the same ill natured prose over and over, and who now has to post under at least two pseudonyms courtesy of a recent ban, you must still have a sense of humour accusing me of being the troll.

ThwartedEfforts November 8, 2009 1:54 AM

Oh, he's been banned again.

Shame really, I do enjoy sparring with the old girl - he has a way with words, even if he can never get to a valid point. Expect he'll be back.

ThwartedEfforts November 8, 2009 9:37 AM

@horseandcart - The car I go to work in is a CL500. Before that I had three S-Class. Before that three 7-Series. My crusade - a tiny voice on the Internet with which you have taken a peculiar exception - is against faddish cars that ride badly, and hence my continued despair at Audi/BMW and joy at the news they're dropping run flats. The idea I'm a a 'Kraut hater' is as ridiculous as the notion that I'm anti American for hating the coffee at Starbucks. Time to ask your occupational therapist to register you yet another account.

Overdrive November 8, 2009 11:49 AM

"ThwartedEfforts November 8, 2009 1:49 AM

MW have made every effort to raise the invoiced price of their cars for years, and in N. America they've pumped the numbers more than any other brand. In 2008 despite a 12% drop in sales, prices in the U.S. were up 1% - they jumped 7% two years before that. The idea it's all down to exchange rates and weak currency is twaddle...."

Err, aren't car makers in the business to make money?

And in any case, if the punters feel some cars are just not worth the money their maker is asking for, they can always vote with their wallets and take their business elsewhere, can they not? It's not as if BMW is holding a gun to their heads, threatening them to buy their cars or else.

t.w.effort November 8, 2009 4:22 PM

"Err, aren't car makers in the business to make money?

And in any case, if the punters feel some cars are just not worth the money their maker is asking for, they can always vote with their wallets and take their business elsewhere, can they not? It's not as if BMW is holding a gun to their heads, threatening them to buy their cars or else."

- correct. TwatEfforts' ego is so huge he thinks the market should bow to the insufferable p rick's will. Now if only TwatEfforts would aim the gun at his own head.

ThwartedEfforts November 8, 2009 5:23 PM

@OD

Correct, but BMW isn't making any money. They are raising prices, laying off workers and sharing more components as part of Norb's ten percent plan, but last week they revealed a 90% earnings drop and loss for the auto division. Meanwhile, rivals at Audi and Mercedes are moving MSRPs the other way and are still managing to post a profit.

A new small Beemer which fits into the low end of a busy range is not going to help matters when it is priced to appeal to existing customers. Tick the 'metallic paint' and 'leather' boxes for minimum spec and you're already closer to £30K than to £20K, and this for a car whose Focus like dimensions make it appear C- rather than D-segment.

BMW have this week revised their sales forecast from positive (based on the successful intro of the X1) to flat, which says it all.

Brava November 8, 2009 8:26 PM

May I point to the following:

www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/.../bmw-beendet-kurzarbeit-1449539.html

Der Autobauer BMW wird in den kommenden Wochen die Kurzarbeit an allen deutschen Standorten beenden. Im Berliner Motorrad-Werk und in der Komponenten-Fabrik Landshut gilt derzeit noch für einige hundert Beschäftigte Kurzarbeit, sie würden bis Jahresende wieder vollbeschäftigt.

Over the next weeks, car maker BMW will end shorter working hours in all German plants. In the Berlin motorcycle plant shorter hours still apply for a few hundred employees. By the end of the year they will be on full working hours again.

Zugleich seien an zwei Standorten des Unternehmens bereits wieder Zeitarbeiter eingestellt worden: In Leipzig beschäftige BMW rund 300 Leiharbeiter, in Regensburg etwa 50. Das Unternehmen hatte wegen der Absatzflaute im ersten Halbjahr insgesamt bis zu 25.000 Mitarbeiter in Kurzarbeit geschickt, im Juli war diese Zahl zunächst auf 12.200 Beschäftigte reduziert worden. Im September war die Kurzarbeit dann in den Auto-Werken beendet worden. BMW will an diesem Dienstag (3.11.) die Zahlen für das dritte Quartal vorlegen.

At the same time temporary workers have been hired again at two German plants. In Regensburg they hired 300 workers and in Leipzig 50. Due to the slump in the first half of the year, the company had sent up to 25,000 workers into a shorter working week. In July this number was reduced to 12,200. In September, the shorter hours were ended for the car plants. BMW intends to publish its third quarter results this Tuesday, 3rd November.

t.w.effort November 9, 2009 12:41 PM

"Correct, but BMW isn't making any money. They are raising prices, laying off workers and sharing more components as part of Norb's ten percent plan, but last week they revealed a 90% earnings drop and loss for the auto division. Meanwhile, rivals at Audi and Mercedes are moving MSRPs the other way and are still managing to post a profit.

BMW have this week revised their sales forecast from positive (based on the successful intro of the X1) to flat, which says it all." - Quite.

- Nov 9 2009:

'BMW sees growth ahead as Oct sales edge up 2 pct'

www.reuters.com/.../idUSFAB01330020091109

BMW share price doubled since low in Feb 2009, from €17 to €34 per share:

uk.finance.yahoo.com/echarts

He's right, BMW have had it!

ThwartedEfforts November 9, 2009 2:51 PM

@horseandcart

Nobody's said that they've 'had it'. Actually, not true - you were the one forecasting BMW's demise with endless noise about their finance division being in trouble. Today it's the only part of the company making a profit, so good job with that prediction.

Sales are 'up' compared to sales during the massive dip last year? Gosh! How about last month:

September 2009 - 122,345 units

October 2009 - 115,252 units

November 2009 - ?

And in any case the 2% rise was overall group performance, BMW brand sales accounting for less than half of one percent. I'd keep the blue and white bunting in the cupboard if I were you, at least until the small car with the Union Jack on its roof has finished carrying the team.

Speaking of which, the 1-Series and MINI are now the 2nd and 3rd best sellers worldwide (225,095 and 232,425 units respectively) accounting for almost as many sales as the 5-, 6-, 7, and X cars put together, or about one third of the total. Owners are new customers in a segment BMW was not previously in, so pricing yet another small car into the bracket above achieves what exactly?

Long story short it needs to start at £19,945.

t.w.effort November 9, 2009 3:54 PM

"And in any case the 2% rise was overall group performance, BMW brand sales accounting for less than half of one percent" - Wie bitte?

- stay off the turps.

By the way you are more fun when in condescension mode. The sudden change to explanation and data is showing you up for the crashing, pedestrian bore you are.

Brava November 9, 2009 4:53 PM

@ThwartedEfforts

Can we expect an effort to substantiate this:

"They are raising prices, laying off workers and sharing more components as part of Norb's ten percent plan, but last week they revealed a 90% earnings drop and loss for the auto division."

It's clear that they've gone back to full working hours and hiring temporary staff again.

P.S. the fact that they're sharing components is nothing new, it's an industry wide development. BMW embarked on such a programme long before the current crisis even with the E38 and E34 IIRC.

Just take a look at VW/Audi/Seat/Skoda/Bentley/Lamborghini to see who else uses a shared component/engines/gearbox/platform programme.

ThwartedEfforts November 9, 2009 8:20 PM

@horseandcart

Is it hug or medication time? I forget.

"BMW Group Oct. global sales up 2% at 115,252 cars,

BMW brand Oct. sales up 0.4% at 95,859 cars."

online.wsj.com/.../BT-CO-20091109-704158.html

Sadly, now Dr Jekyll has left the keyboard we're back with our resident anger management reject. You are a very Strange Case indeed, horsey dear.

@Brava

First, the document to which you keep referring is dated before the $100m loss and thus before the share price took its biggest nose dive in twelve months.

Second, BMW have sent countless thousands of agency workers home this year, not to mention offloading 1,600 full time staff through buyouts and retirements, so whether they're hiring 350 new staff or not it's immaterial.

Norb wants his ten percent, that is all.

effort November 10, 2009 8:22 AM

Brava, you're wasting your time. May as well talk to the wall as 'debate' with T.W.@sefforts.

Besides, you're obviously dealing with someone very senior and privileged to call BMW's head honcho 'Norb'. Likewise, Norb calls Mr T.w.@sefforts, by his nickname, T.w.@.

hedgecreep November 12, 2009 12:38 PM

the point made was that the bmw brand has gone nowhere in two years, and that vehicles like the X1 will chew the ass out of siblings rather than rivals. why blow a fuse over the idea it might do better if sold cheaper ?

incidentally your idea of `debate` has been to do nothing but throw insults around ... if you're gonna be bratty and self important then dont be surprised if the thread stops dead

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