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Wed
Oct 15 2008

Nissan’s GT-R video cuts corners

Steve Sutcliffe

You may or may not know, or for that matter care, but Nissan and Porsche are at each other’s throats at the moment about how fast (or otherwise) the new GT-R can lap the Nurburgring.GT-R

To recap, Nissan claimed the GT-R had set a time of 7min 29 secs. Then a few months later Porsche accused Nissan of – not putting too fine a point on it – cheating, using a ‘bent’ car to set the time.

Next, Nissan put out a press release offering to teach Porsche’s development drivers how to drive, and now Nissan has released an ‘official’ video showing the lap, which also happens to show the standard tyres that were used to set the time.

All of which, you’d think, has put the matter to rest.

Erm, no. In fact I think that Nissan might have made a bit of a howler this time, because I’ve just watched the vid and noticed that the GT-R seems to have missed a whole chunk of straight out of the timed lap.

Watch the footage closely and you’ll see that the clock starts just before the first left hander of the lap, and yet it stops just as the driver is coming out of the final right hander. In between the two there is a good 300 yards of straight, none of which is included in the lap time.

Unfortunately this means Nissan has got its sums wrong to the tune of at least six seconds, maybe more, and put the whole thing on film on the internet.

Which means the vid that's supposed to prove Nissan’s point once and for all is, erm, not very good at proving anything – other than that a GT-R looks very sorted around the Nurburgring, and obviously very fast.

But not quite as fast as Nissan claims…

 

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About Steve Sutcliffe

Autocar's finest driver and most experienced road tester. Raced TVRs for three years; even once drove a Jaguar F1 car. Says he "likes cars, and likes other people who like cars".

Comments

csmith319 October 15, 2008 6:46 PM

Well - its obvious its a very fast car, but the physics involved just don't add up.

However - it has beaten the Porsche in a number of independent tests - when is someone going to put the thing on a rolling road? It just can't be putting out what they claim.

I assume Nissan's attempt was one without a 112mph limiter - so not a standard car...

Greggy50 October 15, 2008 8:28 PM

They have measured it that far as this seems to be the normal way of when timing a lap of the ring as sport auto timed it to the same place. Basically all the laps done by car companies before are timed to that point and therefore Nissan are just following suit (something to do with the pit lane) so Nissan are not cheating in that way and the r35 in my mind is without doubt the faster car. With regards to 112mph limiter as standard sat nav recognises when on a race track and removes the limiter so no cheating there either. :)

Greg  

TegTypeR October 16, 2008 8:29 AM

I for one am putting forward my CV to become the independent ring adjudicator, who has to sit in on every test to make sure it is completed in a consistent and orderly fashion.

With out me in the car, the time will be invalid.

Oh, and part of my job description should be to also drive the cars for at least one lap to make sure there are no improprieties!

theop October 16, 2008 10:00 AM

"Which means the vid that's supposed to prove Nissan’s point once and for all is, erm, not very good at proving anything – other than that a GT-R looks very sorted around the Nurburgring, and obviously very fast. "

Exactly Steve. I understand any manufacturer's aims and claims to Ring fame, especially when they are coming from below and need to prove something against the big boys ( tus hoping to sell more), but at the end of the day does it really matter for us the consumers whether its 7.29 or 7.49 or who is faster by the second? No. It does not matter because all of these sub 8 times are stupendously fast and with the exception of yourself and -very- few other car journos, not many of us your reading public could even come close to these times even given the same car.

I have been to the ring. Twice in a car (with a friend in his M3 and my own Mk2 Elise years ago), I ve also been abt 7 times in my various bikes and of course been round the the artificial Playstation track half a million times! So for those of you who haven't it is properly difficult, it is VERY long and tricky to remember lines and faster drivers pass you with sometimes slower cars right left and centre... I bet that me on this Nissan and a proper fast hand on anything say Boxter, S3 etc can pass me...

So the bottom line, its irrelevent, those 7.29's.... the times only say that the car is superbly sorted! The fact that it also costs 50% less that its closest rival in ring terms is a massive bonus and tbh I cannot think a better value car at this performance - even used ones...

(tempted by the latest M3 though.... slightly used for under 50k that is...)

julianphillips October 16, 2008 11:43 AM

I was burning rubber in a Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo, or so I thought, until I was passed by numerous 'slower' machinery - Polos, diesel Mk 4 Golfs, a Coupe 16v Turbo, an old Jag - you name it, everyone in every type of car, bike or even van passed me like I was driving in reverse.  If I had a GT-R, I doubt I would even get close to the time of an expert driving a Toyota Aygo let alone a Boxster!!

Mithras October 16, 2008 12:22 PM

There's nothing wrong with their way of timing. It's generally known to leave that piece of track out of the timing simply because it's been that way for decades. Nissan has chosen to time their lap the same way the german magazine "sportauto" does.. and that excludes the T13 sector simply because back in the time of the old entrance the cars would enter the track right between the last right-hand corner and the first left-hand corner. They only lap 20.6km whereas a full lap is 20.8km's. How difficult is it to check the facts ?

Paul J October 16, 2008 4:23 PM

I feel sure I replied to this yesterday but it's gone now.  Have I upset someone?

Bauer October 16, 2008 4:44 PM

A check of Wikipedia would do this author well:

"A full lap of the Nordschleife, bypassing the modern GP track, is 20.832 km (12.944 mi) long. Most laps are completed 200 metres (656 ft) shorter for safety reasons. Full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup."

Nissan's lap timing is spot-on and the standard.  I would have though an automotive journalist would have known this.

"During the industry testing sessions in which sport auto records its "Supertest", the track can not be traveled at full speed past "Tribüne 13" (T13, grandstand 13) in order to allow safe access from the old exit/entrance there. Thus, sport auto Supertests cover only about 20.6 km (12.8 mi), which in average yields a 7 s shorter lap time compared to a full lap."

en.wikipedia.org/.../N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_times

theop October 16, 2008 10:06 PM

Wikipedia is useful, but no gospel.. Anyone can actually post in it, so there are abt 5 million mistakes in it.

The specifics on Ring timings are correct though - I ve actually lost a bet on this.. to a german chap who was claiming exactly that (manufacturers omitting the last 300m straight) is because of some silly german health& safety law. It gets manufacturers out of 3rd party liability costs in case of accident/fire etc.. Its the ring's insurance that covers 3rd party...  Something like that - clearly not a lawyer yours truly..

On a funnier note take a moment and read this from an American website claiming that the Corvette is faster than the GTR... funny lot...

www.thetruthaboutcars.com/the-truth-about-the-

nissan-gt-r-and-the-nurburgring-lap-record/

Realpolitik October 19, 2008 8:29 PM

Shockingly inept journalism. How can you not know this as an experienced motoring journalist?

Just as bad as the previous unresearched dodgy tyres claim.

Or is it just a knowing attempt to bring traffic to this sie?

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