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  • The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 21, 2008 2:17 PM

    Major motor manufacturers are already investing increasing amounts of time and money to the creation of a new generation of electric cars – and now a new British company, Liberty Electric Cars Ltd, claims that it’s set to launch a range of electric versions of existing vehicles.
    The Liberty Range Rover is making its debut at the Sexy Green Car Show; it has a claimed range of up to 200 miles on one charge and performance comparable to a petrol version. Prices will be between £95,000 and £125,...Read the full article
  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 21, 2008 2:22 PM

    The headline says 250 jobs being created, but the article indicates nothing to suggest more than a handful of people working on maybe a handful of cars. How exactly are 250 jobs being created? And who is investing the £30million?

    I am a huge fan of electric vehicles - I believe half the population will be driving them within 5-7 years. But for Liberty themselves to talk of producing tens of thousands of cars does sound rather far-fetched.

  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 21, 2008 9:05 PM

    Ben - Your questioning the Liberty job creation claims is very reasonable but your confidence in "50% of the population driving electric vehicles in 5-7yrs" looks anything but!

    I'm assuming here BMW, who probably know more about automobiles than anybody else on the planet, aren't bringing out new 4cyl twin turbocharged petrol and diesel engines next year with an investment cycle of 6 years!

    I'd also venture new car sales don't represent more than 20% of the market and people keep their cars for 3-5 years and then sell on to the 2nd hand and 3rd hand markets (average life of a car 10-12yrs).

    Then you'd need a quite astonishing level of coal, nuclear and oil fired power stations built and cleared ofm planning permission (probably double our countries exisiting grid) starting in approx 3-4yrs time to 'fuel' half the 33M vehicles on our road.

    The current Prius battery lasts about 40 miles, the new London electric Taxi 100 miles. Even assuming battery technology gets to a 250 mile range in 7yrs there's still the colossal investments needed to manufacture millions of electric vehicles.

    There's more "ifs" in your assumptions than there are answers. And the "ifs" are pretty substantial problems.   

    • phenergn
    • Joined Oct 31, 2007
    • 140 Posts
    • Status: Offline

    Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 22, 2008 9:53 AM

    Liberty:
    “making less environmental impact than even the smallest, most fuel-efficient car"

    That seems like an increadibly bold claim, but after a little internet digging it seems that liberty haven't released any data to back it up.

    Given that over 75% of Uk electricity comes from fossil fuels I'd be very interested to see data that shows how a 2500kg offroader can have less environmental impact than a 900kg supermini doing 65 mpg. Fewer local emissions possibly, but that's not what liberty said

  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 23, 2008 12:58 PM

    So, the rich can spend Circa £100,000 on a new electric Range Rover and call themselves environmentally friendly!

    POINTLESS.

    Why not work on a car for the masses rather than a car for the few?

    Caeser ruled with an iron hand, then with a wooden foot and finally with a piece of string.
  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 23, 2008 2:37 PM

    I'd agree with that Jon. If you watched BBC Question Time last night you'd have heard a senior Liberal Party MP say he wants £1,000 tax or more on "the biggest cars who pollute the most" like Rangies and Mercedes et al.

    Twit obviously hasn't done any maths whatsoever. All the Porsches, BMW's and Range Rovers pale into insignificance when you add up their CO2 output next to volume sellers like Escorts, Clios and Golfs. In fact if you were perfectly fair about it you'd actually just wave CO2 taxes for luxury cars.

    Then a panel member mentioned the green cars the Liberal mentioned weren't "as green as they were cracked up to be according to the motoring media" when all CO2 is taken into account. The Liberal said "err well yes umm ahh we do need to look at this.." Ok mate well done! Next.

  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 23, 2008 4:48 PM

    Have to say I don't buy into this reduction of CO2 etc. Bio-diesel white elephant that it is. I actually work in the Oleochemicals industry, the technology used in our refinery is the same as that used to make bio-diesel out of Used cooking oil, tallow, virgin Rapeseed, Soya, palm oils blah, blah.

    The big issue is that what we save in CO2 emissions we replace with other more environmentally damaging gasses, eg. 200-300 times more Nitrous Oxide than conventional fuels!

    The other nonsensical part of all this is the US government are subsidising US bio-diesel producers at $200 per tonne. Over 1 million tonnes came over form the US to Europe's  shores in 2007. Coupled with the week dollar and the zero tax import incentive given to so called green products, the European producers are performing what is called a 'Splash and Dash' transporting literally thousands of tonnes of conventional fuel over to the States to add the 1-5% bio fuel to gain from the incentives handed out by US and European governments!!!! So what about all the CO2 being emitted by these bloody great ships too-ing and fro-ing across the pond?

    It's all a load of political bo--ocks in order to tax us some more.

    Caeser ruled with an iron hand, then with a wooden foot and finally with a piece of string.
  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 23, 2008 4:56 PM

    Just thought I'd add this extract from the Times On Line.

     

    Rapeseed and maize biodiesels were calculated to produce up to 70 per cent and 50 per cent more greenhouse gases respectively than fossil fuels. The concerns were raised over the levels of emissions of nitrous oxide, which is 296 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Scientists found that the use of biofuels released twice as much as nitrous oxide as previously realised. The research team found that 3 to 5 per cent of the nitrogen in fertiliser was converted and emitted. In contrast, the figure used by the International Panel on Climate Change, which assesses the extent and impact of man-made global warming, was 2 per cent. The findings illustrated the importance, the researchers said, of ensuring that measures designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions are assessed thoroughly before being hailed as a solution.

    “One wants rational decisions rather than simply jumping on the bandwagon because superficially something appears to reduce emissions,” said Keith Smith, a professor at the University of Edinburgh and one of the researchers.

    Maize for ethanol is the prime crop for biofuel in the US where production for the industry has recently overtaken the use of the plant as a food. In Europe the main crop is rapeseed, which accounts for 80 per cent of biofuel production.

    Professor Smith told Chemistry World: “The significance of it is that the supposed benefits of biofuels are even more disputable than had been thought hitherto.”

    It was accepted by the scientists that other factors, such as the use of fossil fuels to produce fertiliser, have yet to be fully analysed for their impact on overall figures. But they concluded that the biofuels “can contribute as much or more to global warming by N2 O emissions than cooling by fossil-fuel savings”.

    The research is published in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, where it has been placed for open review. The research team was formed of scientists from Britain, the US and Germany, and included Professor Paul Crutzen, who won a Nobel Prize for his work on ozone.

    Dr Franz Conen, of the University of Basel in Switzerland, described the study as an “astounding insight”.

    “It is to be hoped that those taking decisions on subsidies and regulations will in future take N2O emissions into account and promote some forms of ’biofuel’ production while quickly abandoning others,” he told the journal’s discussion board.

    Dr Dave Reay, of the University of Edinburgh, used the findings to calculate that with the US Senate aiming to increase maize ethanol production sevenfold by 2022, greenhouse gas emissions from transport will rise by 6 per cent.

    Caeser ruled with an iron hand, then with a wooden foot and finally with a piece of string.
  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 24, 2008 1:36 AM

    Jon - The IPCC getting their figures wrong!! Again? Out by 50% to 250% is staggering but after all I've read on the IPCC it's almost a mundane reality to be expected from these United Nations clowns!

    The British government and EEC call them "the most authoritive voice in the world on climate science". When they wise up about the IPCC they'll reach the conclusion it's the most disturbingly inaccurate and politicised body in scientific history.

    The American subsidies you mention are worrying. The US already subsidises Ethanol 8x more than Oil (Eth's $8bn per annum v Oil £1bn). Yet look at what Oil provides compared to Ethanol and you're looking at a factor of 1,000's. It can't go on there or here in the EEC. The Germans have already pulled the plug.

    How do these politicians ever think subsidising anything helps? Subsidies time after time just keep bankrupts going longer, wrong political policies more costly and distorts the 'real' market working at its most efficient. When WILL politicians ever learn?  

  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 24, 2008 6:43 PM

    Yeah I just read that 50 page document you posted in another section of this site regarding nature itself being the culprit behind our climate problems - although according to that document there doesn't appear to be a problem, since overall the effect of global warming will actually improve our standard of living and the economy (US), even if CO2 emissions are to blame, which they aren't.

    I suppose the real issue though is about developing sustainable energy, once oil runs out we will need a replacement and whoever has that replacement, will be very rich, environment doesn't even come into it.

  • Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 24, 2008 7:10 PM

    In light of that though I think I'd prefer to hear that sort of attitude from our government rather than all this drivel about future climate doom and gloom that when scrutinised is based on falsified, inconclusive and misinterpreted science as a justification to tax us all into a recession!

    • noluddite
    • Joined Feb 20, 2008
    • 32 Posts
    • Status: Offline

    Re: The £125k electric Range Rover

    May 26, 2008 9:10 AM

     If it uses 'a huge 1000 Amp 440 Watt supply' to recharge its batteries, that means it must run on the worlds biggest half volt battery. Are you sure?

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