This car leaves me cold, in pretty much the same way as the last 6 series did. This is clearly the ultimate that BMW can produce on a technical basis but it doesn't mean it's any good.
Just a quick play on the configurator, if I were in the market for this sort of car then the 640i looks far better value for what I would guess to be 95% of the ability.
All cars appear to be slightly down on power for the UK market (here 402 bhp instead of 407 bhp) probably due to slightly sub standard fuel quality as in the US. Fuel consumption also suffers slightly.
A properly run 650i Cabrio I tried in Germany did 0-60 mph in 4.96 sec. With xDrive this should be about 4,6 sec.
Steering is very much tyre dependent in most new BMWs, trying certain non RFT tyres can make a dramatic difference.
The car is large though, and should obviously not be seen as an M3 alternative. However "unbalanced" would require substantial a redefinition to apply to this car.
Personally I would prefer a 640i (645i?) which (particularly in its coming 368 bhp version) offers very similar performance at a lower price and less fuel consumption.
If you hate the steering with any tyres and want more of a "Top Gear adapted product" wait for the soon appearing M6 with 586 bhp. This chassis is quite different as has been showed on the "Nordschleife".
All cars appear to be slightly down on power for the UK market (here 402 bhp instead of 407 bhp) probably due to slightly sub standard fuel quality as in the US. Fuel consumption also suffers slightly.
The actual amount of power that is produced tends to be the same globally now. I remember that it used to be the case where Euro models had slightly more power than their US counterparts (E46 M3 for instance), as the US has different emission regulations.
The '5 bhp' drop you mention though is due to 1 Horse Power being 0.987 Brake Horse Power.
Back to this car though; how exactly is this 'the ultimate driving machine' ?
PHILBY wrote:
I guess the upcoming mercedes SL will have an easy time beat it.
You are so right, but as a (former) BMW fan this is all so wrong.
I'd be more interested in a 6 series if it had the excellent new 2 litre diesel power train fitted to the 5 series. All the performance I could realistically use and 50+ mpg.
The real problem is that it just not that much better than the equivalent 3 series. Indeed the current M3 convertible that I have is a better car in pretty much every way, as I suspect is the 335i Convertible.
But it is much more expensive, bigger on the road but not bigger inside. I just don't see the point.
The fist diesel ing the 6 series will no doubt be a very powerful 6 cylinder version, but I agree, the 4 cylinder would give incredible economy.
I´m aware of the difference between bhp and PS although different manufacturers seem to have their own ideas of what is what. In the US we often see engines slightly donw on power due to poorer fuel quality. Performance wise a higher grade often gives slightly better results though. BMW claim their figures to be based on 98 octane fuel. A selection of completely standard 335is run on 98 octane in Germany gave 332 PS (306 PS being the official figure), and even more on 101 octane. All academic of course in something as complex as a modern car, but interesting as a measure of how different manufacturers operate.
A friend of mine just ordered a 650i as a replacement for a DB9, a bit extreme I would have thought, he could not wait for the new M6 poor chap! He praises the safety, longevity and reasonable running costs of the new 6 series (the latter remanis to be seen, but I suppose he refers to the previous 6 series and compares it with the DB9).
The real problem is that it just not that much better than the equivalent 3 series. Indeed the current M3 convertible that I have is a better car in pretty much every way, as I suspect is the 335i Convertible.
But it is much more expensive, bigger on the road but not bigger inside. I just don't see the point.
The 335i is a talented car, no doubt, but by the sounds of it the 650i is the more refined, more luxurious car with better materials and ambience. Its style probably appeals to a different customer group too. The 650's only real downfall (other than its weight, which is related to its main shortcoming) is lack of handling sharpness, according to this test anyway. But then, Autocar early tests of many recent BMWs have criticised the handling, only to praise them in later tests, so who knows.
BMW should've made more of an effort to make this car lighter and its steering more feelsome though. It is supposed to be a sporty coupe after all.
BMW claim their figures to be based on 98 octane fuel.
I think many of the 98 and 99 octane pumps here in the UK are covered in cobwebs at the moment...
I sat in a 640i convertible the other day. It felt massive! The BMW dealer had specced it up fairly conservatively but it was still £75k and I could never imagine myself ordering something like if I had those kind of funds to spend on a car.
Honda CR-V ES 2.2 i-DTEC/Citroen DS3 1.6 VTi DStyle Plus
25 November 2007
This car leaves me cold, in pretty much the same way as the last 6 series did. This is clearly the ultimate that BMW can produce on a technical basis but it doesn't mean it's any good.
Just a quick play on the configurator, if I were in the market for this sort of car then the 640i looks far better value for what I would guess to be 95% of the ability.
It's all about the twisties........
2 January 2010
All cars appear to be slightly down on power for the UK market (here 402 bhp instead of 407 bhp) probably due to slightly sub standard fuel quality as in the US. Fuel consumption also suffers slightly.
A properly run 650i Cabrio I tried in Germany did 0-60 mph in 4.96 sec. With xDrive this should be about 4,6 sec.
Steering is very much tyre dependent in most new BMWs, trying certain non RFT tyres can make a dramatic difference.
The car is large though, and should obviously not be seen as an M3 alternative. However "unbalanced" would require substantial a redefinition to apply to this car.
Personally I would prefer a 640i (645i?) which (particularly in its coming 368 bhp version) offers very similar performance at a lower price and less fuel consumption.
If you hate the steering with any tyres and want more of a "Top Gear adapted product" wait for the soon appearing M6 with 586 bhp. This chassis is quite different as has been showed on the "Nordschleife".
28 April 2010
I guess the upcoming mercedes SL will have an easy time beat it.
21 June 2010
All cars appear to be slightly down on power for the UK market (here 402 bhp instead of 407 bhp) probably due to slightly sub standard fuel quality as in the US. Fuel consumption also suffers slightly.
The actual amount of power that is produced tends to be the same globally now. I remember that it used to be the case where Euro models had slightly more power than their US counterparts (E46 M3 for instance), as the US has different emission regulations.
The '5 bhp' drop you mention though is due to 1 Horse Power being 0.987 Brake Horse Power.
Back to this car though; how exactly is this 'the ultimate driving machine' ?
I guess the upcoming mercedes SL will have an easy time beat it.
You are so right, but as a (former) BMW fan this is all so wrong.
1 June 2010
All cars appear to be slightly down on power for the UK market (here 402 bhp instead of 407 bhp)
407 PS (Pferdestärke) or metric hp equates to 402 bhp, it's just a matter of what power unit you are using...
26 October 2007
I'd be more interested in a 6 series if it had the excellent new 2 litre diesel power train fitted to the 5 series. All the performance I could realistically use and 50+ mpg.
R.I.P. http://www.autocar.co.uk/forum
27 February 2008
The real problem is that it just not that much better than the equivalent 3 series. Indeed the current M3 convertible that I have is a better car in pretty much every way, as I suspect is the 335i Convertible.
But it is much more expensive, bigger on the road but not bigger inside. I just don't see the point.
2 January 2010
The fist diesel ing the 6 series will no doubt be a very powerful 6 cylinder version, but I agree, the 4 cylinder would give incredible economy.
I´m aware of the difference between bhp and PS although different manufacturers seem to have their own ideas of what is what. In the US we often see engines slightly donw on power due to poorer fuel quality. Performance wise a higher grade often gives slightly better results though. BMW claim their figures to be based on 98 octane fuel. A selection of completely standard 335is run on 98 octane in Germany gave 332 PS (306 PS being the official figure), and even more on 101 octane. All academic of course in something as complex as a modern car, but interesting as a measure of how different manufacturers operate.
A friend of mine just ordered a 650i as a replacement for a DB9, a bit extreme I would have thought, he could not wait for the new M6 poor chap! He praises the safety, longevity and reasonable running costs of the new 6 series (the latter remanis to be seen, but I suppose he refers to the previous 6 series and compares it with the DB9).
6 January 2008
The real problem is that it just not that much better than the equivalent 3 series. Indeed the current M3 convertible that I have is a better car in pretty much every way, as I suspect is the 335i Convertible.
But it is much more expensive, bigger on the road but not bigger inside. I just don't see the point.
The 335i is a talented car, no doubt, but by the sounds of it the 650i is the more refined, more luxurious car with better materials and ambience. Its style probably appeals to a different customer group too. The 650's only real downfall (other than its weight, which is related to its main shortcoming) is lack of handling sharpness, according to this test anyway. But then, Autocar early tests of many recent BMWs have criticised the handling, only to praise them in later tests, so who knows.
BMW should've made more of an effort to make this car lighter and its steering more feelsome though. It is supposed to be a sporty coupe after all.
4 March 2008
BMW claim their figures to be based on 98 octane fuel.
I think many of the 98 and 99 octane pumps here in the UK are covered in cobwebs at the moment...
I sat in a 640i convertible the other day. It felt massive! The BMW dealer had specced it up fairly conservatively but it was still £75k and I could never imagine myself ordering something like if I had those kind of funds to spend on a car.
Honda CR-V ES 2.2 i-DTEC/Citroen DS3 1.6 VTi DStyle Plus