20 February 2011
Apparently there's a new way of measuring how 'green' a car is: Porsche is saying that the Panamera hybrid has the lowest power-to-CO2 figure of any car, at around 2.3bhp/gram of CO2; this means that it's better than, for example, a Prius (which in fact produces around 1.5bhp/CO2).
So the question is...although the Prius is cleaner (it emits less CO2 than the Panamera), it is less efficient than said Porsche. So which is 'greener'?
6 November 2007
i stand educated and corrected. excellent post sir! however, it is all very well quoting statistics about wind farms and solar panels being built, but they will not provide the energy to charge all the millions of cars which these cities with electric charging points will need. surely all this will come from fossil fuels??
I agree entirely. My overall point (that got lost in the ranting! Apologies), is that it will be a mistake to underestimate the Chinese in any facet of modern life. You're spot on to say they want what everyone else has had for the last 60 years, but they're not starting from 60 years behind. They're only about a week behind, and they are the ones that are making the stuff in the first place, while creating the environment to get resources and expertise from elsewhere as they need it, as LA mentioned above. Smart people.
I started working in China in 2004. A project that has just completed, as it happens, a boarding primary school about an hour from Shanghai (but a world away in wealth and structure), was originally planned in the usual way...walls, roof, lights, connect it up. One day I get a call from the client, who could barely contain herself, telling me that the state would match the funding of the provincial government if 80% of the summertime energy consumption, and 55% of the winter, were generated ex-grid. I was stunned. It's easy enough to achieve, in fact on good days and holidays it will supply the grid, in a small way, but that level of forward thinking I just have never found anywhere else. What made it more astonishing, considering the state grant, is that the client is a charity run by the catholic church. The client paid only 22% of the final cost.
If I knew what I was getting into, I wouldn't have done it...and I would have been wrong.
18 February 2010
2007, China emmited around 12 times as much CO2 as the UK. China's population is around 20 times that of the UK, landmass around 40 times that of the UK. Yes, you're right that as China grows it will demand more energy, and potentially produce a greater amount of CO2, but China is far better placed to develop and deliver cleaner and more energy efficient means of power generation, construction, and production, than the UK has ever been, where CO2 levels only ever dropped because of the move to gas fired power stations.
Just look at cities like Rizdao, Huangbaiyu, and Dongtan, where new developments must have systems such as, combined heat and power plant, heat recovery systems, solar water heating systems, and solar shading design built in to get consent. Where landlords of existing buildings are offered grants to do the same. Industries are being encouraged to do likewise, and where appropriate, their waste products are being used for power generation. OK, it's only a few cities at the moment, and serves only as offset, but it would be a mistake to underestimate the rate of development and roll out.
Cities like Hangzhou, where it genuinely has a comprehensive citywide network of charging points for electric cars. If not already, very soon every taxi will be electric, and the subsidy for buying an electric car for private use also includes a scrappage element, as well as a rebate off your electricity bill for electric car use. Many other cities offered subsidies for replacing motorbikes and scooters for electric bicycles, some even banned new registrations of petrol powered bikes. Not forgetting, the complete electrification of the state railway.
Locally, many districts offer incentives for recycling. In some places you can get credits for local public transport, for example. The recycling doesn't just go into the same truck as the rest of the household waste, and then on to landfill. It goes to large scale CHP plant.
You queried Mr Trilby's assertion that "China invests a massive amount in renewable energy and really puts us to shame". It does. China is the world's second largest market for wind power (in excess of £10billion in 2008), and also the largest manufacturer of and market for photovoltaics in the world. The biggest concern, environmentally, is in the ready supply of fresh water, especially as the country continues to urbanise.
i stand educated and corrected. excellent post sir! however, it is all very well quoting statistics about wind farms and solar panels being built, but they will not provide the energy to charge all the millions of cars which these cities with electric charging points will need. surely all this will come from fossil fuels??
2 July 2009
Sportwagon ,
Hope I can en-lighten you . Pun intended .
Lithium is the lightest metal and solid element in the periodic table .
Therefore it is definitely not a heavy metal like cadmium in Ni Cad batteries .
6 November 2007
last time i looked (if we use Co2 as the measuring tool) China's pollution was rising exponentially
To be fair il sole, you can't say things like that and not back it up with evidence.
2007, China emmited around 12 times as much CO2 as the UK. China's population is around 20 times that of the UK, landmass around 40 times that of the UK. Yes, you're right that as China grows it will demand more energy, and potentially produce a greater amount of CO2, but China is far better placed to develop and deliver cleaner and more energy efficient means of power generation, construction, and production, than the UK has ever been, where CO2 levels only ever dropped because of the move to gas fired power stations.
Just look at cities like Rizdao, Huangbaiyu, and Dongtan, where new developments must have systems such as, combined heat and power plant, heat recovery systems, solar water heating systems, and solar shading design built in to get consent. Where landlords of existing buildings are offered grants to do the same. Industries are being encouraged to do likewise, and where appropriate, their waste products are being used for power generation. OK, it's only a few cities at the moment, and serves only as offset, but it would be a mistake to underestimate the rate of development and roll out.
Cities like Hangzhou, where it genuinely has a comprehensive citywide network of charging points for electric cars. If not already, very soon every taxi will be electric, and the subsidy for buying an electric car for private use also includes a scrappage element, as well as a rebate off your electricity bill for electric car use. Many other cities offered subsidies for replacing motorbikes and scooters for electric bicycles, some even banned new registrations of petrol powered bikes. Not forgetting, the complete electrification of the state railway.
Locally, many districts offer incentives for recycling. In some places you can get credits for local public transport, for example. The recycling doesn't just go into the same truck as the rest of the household waste, and then on to landfill. It goes to large scale CHP plant.
You queried Mr Trilby's assertion that "China invests a massive amount in renewable energy and really puts us to shame". It does. China is the world's second largest market for wind power (in excess of £10billion in 2008), and also the largest manufacturer of and market for photovoltaics in the world. The biggest concern, environmentally, is in the ready supply of fresh water, especially as the country continues to urbanise.
If I knew what I was getting into, I wouldn't have done it...and I would have been wrong.
17 July 2009
just think what china will produce once its population is as rich...holy moly, i'm not thinking about it
Yup, and who is it that is selling China industrial materials, know-how, engineers, a few million cars a year and locating factories there? Same as people in Middle-East discovering the gas canisters used to intimidate legitimate protest have "Made in Britain" stamped on them.
What's ethics when it comes to the bottom line profit level?
18 February 2010
China invests a massive amount in renewable energy and really puts us to shame.
does it?
It shows up exactly how ignorant our myopic nationalist ramblings about "why should we change if noone else is" are
come on trilby, you can't say that and don't back it up with some evidence!!! last time i looked (if we use Co2 as the measuring tool) China's pollution was rising exponentially...Remember too, as they and others (like india) get richer, so they will want what we've had for the last 60 years. Whatever we do to reduce our emission will be a drop in the ocean compared to what they will be producing in 20-30 years. it's obvious! if the US can be the biggest polluter for years whilst it was and still is the biggest economy, with around 8% of the world's population, just think what china will produce once its population is as rich...holy moly, i'm not thinking about it!
14 February 2009
Apparently there's a new way of measuring how green shopping bags are , and a plastic bag is as green as a cotton bag or a paper bag , and is much greener still if you re-use it even once !
15 December 2008
CO2 is not a pollutant, the by-products of extracting and processing heavy metals such as lithium are. The Prius uses more heavy metals than the Porsche, therefore the Porsche is the greener car.
17 July 2009
The greenest car is a car that uses the least energy to produce and run during its lifetime and is easily recycled.
A Murray T25! - low material content and day-to-day operation? Ouch!
I'll get my coat ...
22 February 2008
China invests a massive amount in renewable energy and really puts us to shame. It shows up exactly how ignorant our myopic nationalist ramblings about "why should we change if noone else is" are. As to Teg's quest to discover how much energy is used in producing and running cars, there is plenty of research kicking around on the Internet. I'm surprised it's taking him so long. Maybe the answer doesn't suit his expectations?