Mon
May 11 2009

What should Captain Slow drive?

James Ruppert
A very close relative got ‘done’ recently for speeding when travelling at 36mph in a 30mph zone. He wasn’t going past a school at chucking out time, but proceeding downwardly from a derestricted hill into a rural 30mph area, where the only living thing he could bother was a sheep. Yes, he was in sunny Flintshire in Wales. He was given the option of going to speeders’ school in lieu of points, but there was a catch. He lives in Essex and he could only attend a course in Welsh Wales. Genius.

So, as part of his rehabilitation, I am proposing that he part-exchange his diesel Jag S-Type for something considerably slower. First thoughts are that he gets an ancient Series Land Rover, which is slow and suitably raised from the road so that you can see the ‘safety van’ behind the hedge. Indeed, loads of bread and butter classics with wheezy side valve engines would certainly do. Ford Pop anyone?



Despite the speed which professionals manage to get commercial vehicles to reach on the motorway, a civilian in an adapted van can become something of a slug, hence the Fiat Doblo, which I believe was the slowest thing on the road ever in diesel or even petrol form. It took 20.9 seconds to get anywhere near 60mph.

Maybe he should just make sure that whatever comes next has a towbar, so that he can simply hitch a caravan when he goes anywhere near Wales.

I’ll forward any constructive, deconstructive or plain stupid suggestions his way.




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About James Ruppert

Used to sell BMWs, but he's no yuppie; has a '64 Mini Cooper in his garage and a '57 BSA Bantam in his house. Has bought and sold hundreds of used cars, and he isn't finished yet.

Comments

jammiedodger May 11, 2009 11:47 AM

Surely this defeats the object of the old saying:

"A good workman never blames his tools"?

FlashBastd May 11, 2009 12:13 PM

"Safety Van" or "Safety Horsebox"?

superstevie May 11, 2009 12:26 PM

Im sure it would matter what car he was in, you could still be caught for speeding in a situation like that. I hate these vans, as they dont take into consideration what the conditions are like at the time like a police officer would. Travelling on the M74 yesterday afternoon, in the glorious sunshine, with very little traffic on the road, a police van was on a bridge catch all the speeders.

I've got one of the new diesel smarts, and think that is currently the slowest car on the road new (could be wrong) but because of its lightweight and torquey nature, im sure i could easily be done for speeding around town, but not likely on the motorway with a top speed of 85.....

Orangewheels May 11, 2009 12:30 PM

Surely the fitting of the excellent new speed limiter devices that TFL are proposing would have stopped his reckless, disgusting and downright monstrous act of travelling at 36 mph in a 30 zone. Does he not realise how many people he could have killed?!!

TFL does. They've worked it out for him and it was somewhere just under the million mark apparently.

James, surely your time would be best spent counselling your friend on the evils of speeding, or driving altogether - divert him away from the route of being a mass murderer to something less hated in the public eye, has he ever considered joining Al Qaeda perhaps?

superstevie May 11, 2009 12:41 PM

PMSL @ orangewheels!

julianphillips May 11, 2009 12:45 PM

The Aixam range is pretty slow - how about the Aixam Mega Van, which will crack 50mph - just - and take about 45 seconds to get there!!!  

TegTypeR May 11, 2009 12:53 PM

Doblo does it for me, but don't forget that is only the standard 1.9 NA diesel or the 1.2 (!!) petrol that are slow enough.

julianphillips May 11, 2009 1:08 PM

The Doblo is a Lamborghini to the Aixam!

David Harrington-Wright May 11, 2009 1:35 PM

Serves him right for coming into the kingdom of Brunstrum where i live...you get used to suspecting just about every parked vehicle and spend more time concentrating on your speedo than the road conditions...

David Harrington-Wright May 11, 2009 1:36 PM

Oh at least he has announced his retirement for July

Uncle Mellow May 11, 2009 1:46 PM

Your relative doesn't need to change his car , he just needs to change the number plates on his car. Plod won't persue him - too much like hard work. Too easy to meet government targets by persuing honest citizens.

RobotBoogie May 11, 2009 2:09 PM

I'm just curious - who are these people who have no idea how fast they are going unless they are staring continually at their speedo? Can you not tell the difference between 30mph and 36mph just by how fast the scenery is going by/HVH/gear selection/etc?

David Harrington-Wright May 11, 2009 2:13 PM

Robotboogie - in a modern car the difference in noise vibration and harshness at 30 is much the same as at 35 in my opinion, certainly in my two cars

David Harrington-Wright May 11, 2009 2:13 PM

Robotboogie - in a modern car the difference in noise vibration and harshness at 30 is much the same as at 35 in my opinion, certainly in my two cars

RobotBoogie May 11, 2009 2:30 PM

DHW, I clearly don't know you from Adam, but I'm pretty much flabbergasted that anyone who has held a licence for more than a year or two can't tell the difference between 30 and 35mph, especially in a built up area, even if your ears are plugged up and you're sitting on a foot of foam in a Roller. It's a question of how fast the scenery is going by. I think the underlying problem is that a lot of people fundamentally don't care how fast they are going, give or take 5 or 10mph, even with all the evidence for how much these differences in speed affect pedestrians in the event of an accident. They think that going at 36mph in a 30mph isn't a big difference when all the facts suggest that it is. Maybe what you really need is one of the limiters that TfL are talking about. Would sort out the issue for you in a moment.

julianphillips May 11, 2009 2:52 PM

You wouldn't notice the difference in an Aixam - above 25mph is like reaching hyperspeed in the Millenium Falcon.

James Ruppert May 11, 2009 3:02 PM

Glad we are all taking this seriously chaps. I do reckon modern cars that 30-35mph is fairly indistinguishable in a rural setting anyway which was the circumstances of this nick. My Mini at 10mph feels like it is hurstling down the Mulsanne Straight because of the noise and buffeting and the roars of encouragement from those at the bus stop. Yes small buzzy cars must be the answer.

julianphillips May 11, 2009 3:06 PM

My GPS says 30mph whilst my speedo says 36mph.  I think the GPS is correct?

Phinehas May 11, 2009 3:37 PM

Well, Robobootie, I've held a licence for 32 years and I can't always tell a 5mph difference without looking at my speedo. Not all noises are equal and wind noise is the greatest in my car. A windy day can play havoc with 'not-looking-at-the-speedo-coz-I'm-totally-at-one-with-my-machine-and-am-so-thoroughly-zen-that-it's-the-world-that-moves-not-me-anyway, man'. Add the effect of a tailwind and the consequent reduction in noise, and I'm ticket waiting to happen. Or I would be if I went to North Wales ever again (a gog with a speed-gun, what a thought!).

Being in 5th gear can be just as deceptive, as can driving into bright sunshine, etc, etc. Relying on passing scenery to judge your speed is very dodgy, and I suspect, rather points-intensive. Especially since I live in a desert.

I note that Derbyshire are claiming a 37% reduction in road deaths over 10 years. Is that true, or just manipulation of facts?

BulletTrainMcKane May 11, 2009 4:08 PM

Being a modern motorist, I am incapable of using my own judgement to determine an appropriate speed to suit prevailing conditions. Fortunately the UK government understands my plight and does all the thinking for me.

David Harrington-Wright May 11, 2009 4:39 PM

Well Robotboogie, I drive on average 35000 per annum, a lot in North Wales, have been driving 24 years and have a clean licence, so obviously I do something right.

I would like to see how accurate you could gauge speed - perhaps sit in the passenger seat, blinkered so you cannot see the speedo, and then see if you can tell the difference between 25, 30, 35 and 40. I would expect yes to 25 to 35, and 25 to 40, but I doubt 25 to 30 and 30 to 35! Maybe, if I can swear here, a Top Gear Challenge!

RobotBoogie May 11, 2009 5:20 PM

Well, if hardly anyone knows how fast they are going to within 5-10mph, maybe TfL are onto something in all seriousness...

Zeddy May 11, 2009 5:59 PM

I'm with RobotBoogie on this one.

If your car seat that had a red hot poker that raised itself above 30mph in town, I bet you'd know when you were doing 30mph.

Incidentally, the smaller and lighter (less insulation) your car is the more noticable speed is.

Get rid of the big lounges on wheels and drive small, light cars. They tend to concentrate the mind.

Zeddy May 11, 2009 6:00 PM

Oops, too many "that"s!

The Colonel May 11, 2009 6:34 PM

Small observation.

When driving at 30m/h in my car, the sat nav will show 27m/h.

To be clocked at a real 36m/h, James Ruppert, I suspect your relative's speedo was probably clocking closer to 40m/h.  10m/h over the 30m/h limit?  OK, on the rural road, in the conditions you describe, still not the crime of the century, but paints a slightly different picture in the telling, does it not?  Is it more or less acceptable than doing 90m/h on a national speed limit dual carriageway?

Maybe your relative pondered it as he did 85m/h on the A40 on his journey home.

As for the telling the difference between 30m/h and 35m/h, I imagine some can, and some cannot, regardless of experience and licence score.  Personally, I'd struggle.  But then I also struggle to see how difficult it is also to just instinctively glance at your speedo every so often.  If you know the speed limit for the area then it really isn't difficult to keep to speed limit.  If you don't know the speed limit, then you should also know what to do.  Either way, it's not exactly a trial by ordeal to maintain the correct speed for a given road...it should be no more difficult to be aware of your speed than...being aware of what is behind you, for example.

MrTrilby May 11, 2009 6:52 PM

The Colonel makes a good point. If you can't spot that you're speedo is reading 40 when it ought to read 30, I suggest they either swap their car for one with a bigger speedo - a MINI comes to mind, or they book an appointment with their optician.

Complaining and campaigning about unreasonable speed limits is one thing (and quite laudable IMHO). Breaking rules by a decent margin then whining about it when you get caught out is another.

jonfortwo May 11, 2009 7:35 PM

if he can find one a Citroen Dyane. Not the 602cc model but the 400cc version from the early 70`s, my dad had one and he drove it within an inch of its life all the time to keep up with other traffic, never achieved it. Top speed i believe was 63mph, which felt much,much more.

drivenfromtherearplease May 11, 2009 10:14 PM

O'wz about the Fiat Panda 4x4? Probably the same space as the Jag, slow and have the ability to take evasive off road action upon spotting a trap.

Other than that the New Focus RS (Essex Connections) and change at the border To a Morris Minor Traveller (kindly kept undercover by Mrs Jones in Oswestry. (Tell him to remember the cameras along the last part of the A5 before Oswestry - although the sat nav should pick them up).

James Ruppert May 11, 2009 10:32 PM

Panda is a good suggestion as is Dyane. For all those speculating on teh circumstances of the crime it really was a foot off the pedal moment and coasting to the legal speed limit in a totally rural environment with no twisty bits or anything. Also 56 year old relative with an utterly clean licence so not a serial offender, just a normal cove like the rest of us caught out, not on some virtually one way urban rat run with cars parked either side, but in Wales. Beautiful place, but over enthusiastic traffic enforcement. Lock up some drug dealers and burglars etc, contd Daily Mail, I won't go on...

JoeF May 11, 2009 10:32 PM

Those vans are so annoying.  And as for not being able to know how fast your going, i doubt anyone wont check the speedo when one of the vans looms into view, whether you [i]know[/i] your doing 30ish or not.  Dangerous imo, most people panic when the see panda cars, especially when this is coupled with having to check your not in for a fine and points.

And whats the point of those autonomous signs that flash up saying slow down as well?  Another literally pointless distraction.

Good point about the commercial vehicles on the motorway tho,  Iv thought Combos are the fastest thing on the roads for ages!

The Colonel May 11, 2009 11:52 PM

" a normal cove like the rest of us caught out, not on some virtually one way urban rat run with cars parked either side, but in Wales. "

No, no, no, no, no!  No.  Stop it.  No.  Not like the rest of us, at all.

As I said, if he was booked for doing 36m/h he almost certainly believed he was going faster (unless he had another frame of reference).

The signs, the ones that are round, with numbers in.  They are what the speed limit is at that point.  They are not advisory.  They do not mean "start coasting now".  What they mean is that you should be doing that speed, as a maximum in appropriate conditions.  No-one was "caught out".

James, are you suggesting that people that live and use the roads in urban areas are somehow more deserving of protection against speeding than those that live and use the roads in rural areas?  As Mr. Trilby said, campaign for sensible speed limits by all means, but please cut the whining when caught.

This is the kind of attitude that really pisses me off.  Just like that of your colleague whining because he got caught speeding within the approach to some tolls, despite getting away with speeding elsewhere.  It makes life harder for drivers like me.  People who choose to drive fast cars, but live with the constant assumption from others, that think they know best (yes, including the Police), that as I own a fast car I therefore must speed (and if I'm driving sensibly I'm therefore up to no good for some other purpose).

It's not "over enthusiastic traffic enforcement"...they are enforcing the law.  You might not like the way they are doing it, I might not like the way they do it.  They may well have more pressing issues to deal with.  They may well be making up the numbers.  They may well be only trying to raise revenue.  Well, there's an easy solution to that, isn't there.  It's not rocket science.  It's not even Year 7 science.

James Ruppert May 12, 2009 9:47 AM

Going faster in certain circumstances is obviously more dangerous than others. Hence the deserted motorway only doing 90mph argument. We all know these are revenue raising exercises and nothing to do with safety.

This sort of law enforcement is the easy peasy kind. Fine some middle class tax payer, but leave the difficult to prosecute uninsured Travellers site Transit well alone.

BMW750 May 12, 2009 12:36 PM

Speeding is not what causes ALL the accidents. Its lack of concentration, but with so much to take in as a driver - pot holed roades, too many road signs, roadworks, speedcameras, cycle lanes, bus lanes, bad drivers and variable speed limits its no wonder there are so many accidents. How many times has a post just stopped on a busy round and blocked everyone behind because thats where the post stop is? Or traffic calming islands built to slow people down - or in reality to make you drive head on in the opposite lane.

Roads should be more driver friendly - wider, more lanes and properly maintained, traffic jam signs and an initiative to KEEP BRITAIN MOVING!

p.s support your local businesses? i can't even park near them where i live.

BMW750 May 12, 2009 12:37 PM

post??? i meant BUS

RobotBoogie May 12, 2009 4:20 PM

"We all know these are revenue raising exercises and nothing to do with safety." - James Ruppert.

Do we? I might accept an argument that speed cameras are both there for safety and to make easy fines too but to say that they are there simply to raise revenue disregards the number one, basic and fundamental fact - speed limits on our roads have been put in place by expert road engineers based on decades of experience across our country and many others. In most places, they get it right and anyone exceeding the speed limit on the basis that they know better is almost certainly ill advised and guilty of a breathtaking degree of arrogance. James, this kind of knee jerk cynicism is just boring.

The Colonel May 12, 2009 9:53 PM

"this kind of knee jerk cynicism is just boring."

Trouble is RB it's not knee jerk.  It is, very clearly, ingrained.

Cromwell May 13, 2009 1:20 PM

Thete was a beat bobby with a speed gun outside my house last night, I was gardening and could hear what he said to all the drivers he caught speeding through my village.  

For information, it was 17.30, my house is about central in the village and it is a 30 limit and there are often lots of kids around.

"Good Evening Sir, do you know why ive stopped you this evening?"

"This is a 30 miles an hour limit and you were doing 45mph"

"If we catch you again, you will receive 3 points and a 60 quid fine"

"Have a pleasant evening Sir"

This went on for an hour, speeds of anywhere from 35 to 45 mph.  There is no consistency with beat bobbies, what we need is proper traffic police, who I hope would have handed out lots of fines in this instance and not in the case of Mr Rupperts relative!

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