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TegTypeR April 17, 2009 4:52 PM

Two grand will buy you pretty much anything you fancy, from sports car to luxury saloon, which is where I'll start...

Lexus LS400 1997 - May have around 150K on the clock but the engine will still be as creamy and smooth as it always was, especially with the service history.

Porsche 944 2.5 - Fancy a sports car?  An early dash model, so it's less desirable but mechanically they are strong.  Great fun and quite cheap to run.

Renault Espace - Need a people carrier?  Still seats seven and in half decent nick at this money.  Be looking at around a 1998 model.

Ssangyong Musso  -  Need a tough off roader?  Well not exactly fast, but they are durable with their Mercedes diesel engines.  1999 models around at this money.

Subaru Legacy 2.5 -  Require a family car?  Characterful flat four engined four door.  Reliable, if not the most economical in its class.

Citroen C3  -  Shopping runaround?  Didn't realise these had hit this price point yet.  Will have a higher mileage, but at least you could say you own a current model car.

theonlydt April 17, 2009 5:49 PM

"2000 Honda Accord Aerodeck" - do you mean Civic Aerodeck?

My current car is going to be scrapped, which is a shame, but £2k towards a new car is just what I need. I'm in my 20s, have a secure job and a reasonably income. My last two cars have been used cars, but I'm fed up of the servicing and repair bills associated with them.

Therefore I'm going to buy a new car. It'll be more effecient - the CO2 rating of my current car is over 200 (it's a 1.8 accord) and I'm looking at a whole load of cars that are in Band B (100-120) or maybe Band C.

I'll be scrapping a perfectly good car - it's done 90,000 miles, it's in reasonably good nick. It's a Honda and therefore could do twice the mileage. Yet it's 9 1/2 years old and the scrappage scheme gives me another £1.2k over the used value of my car.

The problem in the UK is that our second hand car prices are artificially low - look at countries like Canada and the US - higher mileages and often the extra salting on Canadian roads means you won't have a car over 10 years old. Therefore there are fewer, newer used cars, making new cars even more attractive.

As for the Alfas - more than happy to see them go.

While we have the idea of "embedded energy" - those lifecycle anaylses don't include the energy recovered from recycling cars. My car is 85-90% recyclable by component (95%ish by weight). However, switching from a car that will do 35mpg (33 quoted) to one that will achieve 50-75mpg makes a huge difference to my personal carbon footprint (yes, I've worked it out over 8 years).

Finally, it's not just CO2 - a lot of the cars that will be scrapped produce much higher levels of other pollutants (NOx, particulate matter). Take a 1.3 Ka from 1996 - that old 1.3 kent, pushrod engine has emissions issues later in life as they're knackered from about 70,000 miles on. Imagine if you trade that in for a new 1.2 ka doing 55mpg and clean as anything? Or a Peugeot 306 DTurbo (lovely car in its time) - the particulates and Nox coming out the back of that compared to the newest Euro 5 diesels. Also that car would do about 45-50mpg. The 1.6tdci focus easily reaches 60mpg.

Most cars of "character" won't be traded in - if a car is worth preserving someone out there will. I have no doubt the majority of cars to be scrapped will be the rusting, smoking **** out on our roads - probably saxos and 106s driven by 19-25 year olds who decide to try and finance a new car.

theonlydt April 17, 2009 5:54 PM

James Ruppert - that TF you found - was it a 1.8 120 automatic? (only one on autotrader at that price) If it is you'll notice it has an issue with cooling - that K series will blow the headgasket on a cooling problem. That'd be a big waste of £2k!

James Ruppert April 17, 2009 8:54 PM

Hello DT, Yes the MG is a risk and I've written about blown gaskets as recently as December I think. Just making a point of what's out there ultimately you need to go and prod around and make a judgement. Otherwise I know there are all sorts of environmental reasons for scrapping, but actually the biggest motoring cost of all is depreciation. Servicing is a consequence of owning and looking after a car and not an inconvenience in my book and that means I have very few breakdowns with what is an ageing fleet. My most recent car is 2000 on a W and it has no issues after a hard year. The next oldest is a P plate and I expect things to wear out, but actually it soldiers on and my costs compared to buying new and then watching a car depreciate are very easy to manage. That's my choice of course and as car enthusiast I enjoy the experience of keeping a car going. There really should be more older and privately owned even privately leased cars on car magazine fleets to keep hacks in touch with real life running costs. I won't go on.

theonlydt April 18, 2009 12:42 PM

Don't get me wrong on servicing - I totally agree that servicing is a must - I've always serviced my cars religiously when they're supposed to - either franchised dealer or independent specialist. The problem with a 10 year old car is that everything starts to go. Bushes start to perish, as do gaitors. Dampers/springs may need replacing as they age and mileage increases. Suddenly you're faced with spending £300 on every service, which was every 6000 miles on my last Civic. Never broke down, but servicing was not cheap. Brand new car may need servicing every 12k/15k/20k. Chances are servicing costs will be seriously reduced. I know depreciation is a cost, but I'd rather a cost that stays relatively stable (and they are allowing the scrapping allowance on nearly new cars - taking out some of the sting) rather than being lumped with a £400 bill because brake pipes are corroding, or the head gasket needs skimming etc (why you won't catch me buying a K series or anything Peugeot - I refuse to accept that a modern car should ever need a new head gasket)

Lee23404 April 20, 2009 5:49 PM

I don't know what makes me more mad, the thought of perfectly good cars being scrapped or more of our money being wasted on yet another pointless govenerment scheme. Actually thats not true, it's the waste of our money that gets me mad. The majority of the cars bought under this scheme (Clio, Punto, Focus etc, etc) will have been made outside of this country so not only will "my" tax money have been wasted, it will also go abroad. Gee, good idea! It won't even help manufacturers I have some affection for like JLR (if you can afford one you won't need the £2k).

Some will point out the increased business for dealers and transport companies but what about the independent mechanics and used car traders who will go out of business? The government doesn't seem to gove a monkeys about them. And thats not to mention the hit in used values for those people who have recently bought cars without the help of a bribe.

theonlydt - I can understand why this would be good for you but when running costs get to much just do what people have done for decades; get an affordable loan or heavens forbid save up for a new car that you can afford (thats not aimed specifically at you, just the general principle).

Car makers have over produced new cars for years and now  they have run in to problems largely of their own making. The government should get credit moving so that people can buy a new car if they so wish but that's where their involvement should end.

superheater April 23, 2009 10:25 AM

Lee, why do you say "the government should get credit moving so that people can buy a new car"

What's wrong with people saving for whatever they want to buy, whether it be a new car or a new TV.  It's excess credit that's got the UK into the mess we're in.  

ColinS April 30, 2009 10:39 PM

Not sure if theonlydt has ever run a new car? I can report that servicing is usually £200 starting no matter what the service required and parts aren't cheap either - no pattern parts or oem branded, manufacturer only.

Of course if you're company's paying that's fine but I quickly learnt again (when opted out) that depreciation dwarves any other costs.

One years depreciation on my Volvo and Saab was the same as what 2 x my 328 cost outright.

Stuff does wear out but not as quick as you might be led to believe on the motor car, and buying something with FSH means often someone else has done that already.

anyway back to the original question. £2K is as much as you need to spend nowadays, my list would include:

BMW E36 Coupe (what I paid for mine)

Merc CE Coupe (though a bit old perhaps for daily)

Honda Prelude

Golf VR6

Alfa GTV

Impreza or Legacy

Passat 4motion

BMW E38

and lots more......

I'm suspecting this scheme won't work, even my Mum has decided she's better off keeping her 95 Golf as it's 100% reliable, isn't depreciating and costs buttons to service just down the road (rather than having to take it 20 miles to the main dealer)

ColinS April 30, 2009 10:45 PM

James wrote "There really should be more older and privately owned even privately leased cars on car magazine fleets to keep hacks in touch with real life running costs. I won't go on."

I agree, and the same for car manufacturers whose employees often get a new car every 6-9 months, I see too many people suckered into spending large amounts of money every month to pay off car finance when something older would be far more cost effective for them.

Personally I also enjoy the experience of keeping the car going, but I've had to resort to getting a 19yr old Golf to have something that needs working on.