Green cars - All Comments

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

sierra — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:33:03 GMT

"...would take a week or three to do 50 miles..."

But what about "granny is ill and we need to get there tonight" - "sorry, the car's on charge; oh, and she's in Manchester so it's beyond the range, so we'll have to stop in Birminham to re-charge......zzzzz"

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

Dan McNeil — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:04:17 GMT

beachland2:

"£2k for replacement batteries is stupid and i dont see a reason why anyone would buy them. you can buy a very decent car for £2k"

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What a dozy comment.

How is having to spend £2k on replacement batteries after 250,000-odd miles to keep a car going any more stupid than spending a similar amount to keep a conventionally powered car of similar mileage on the road? Plus, when the your high mileage Prius with its new battery finally fell apart, you'd strip out the still decent battery and keep it as spare for your next secondhand (£2k) Prius.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

beachland2 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:06:49 GMT

oh i also forgot to add that an additional bonus of taking out all the batteries and motors is that it will save many kgs of weight. even with less power it should feel nicer to drive, better on the bumps and easier on the brakes etc.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

beachland2 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 00:01:51 GMT

£2k for replacement batteries is stupid and i dont see a reason why anyone would buy them. you can buy a very decent car for £2k.

james you have the right idea to buy a cheap old prius. its something i have thought about. they have tiny tax costs per year, which is an asset i think people are missing considering its very low asking prices now for the original models. and a loophole in the tax makes them even more viable. when the battery packs or motor or conversion parts do eventually fail, then rip out the whole electric systems, recycle/scrap them maybe even get some cash for them. then run the car as just a small engined petrol car. but the unique bonus is that you still get the cheap tax disc every year. even though average emissions have shot up.

i even had a business plan to buy up lots of old prius, do the stripping and resell them as trouble free cheap family cars with cheap tax for life. sadly i dont have the money to do it. but it would be fun.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

Uncle Mellow — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:13:37 GMT

Hang on a minute. Autocar keeps telling us that small diesel cars will be extict shortly , because of the cost of cleaning up the exhaust. Many diesel cars are already giving problems because the particulate filters require you to go for a good thrash down the motorway fairly often . I know people who regularly start their cars to drive half a mile to work, and would take a week or three to do 50 miles. This sort of use is death to a petrol or diesel engine , and electric cars would be the answer.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

jackjflash — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 21:10:57 GMT

Its human nature to be impatient; everyone wants a quick fix but unfortunately it takes a little “stick to it” for something like electric cars to progress. In the process some may fail; i.e. the ill fated EV1 and yes maybe the Wiz. The G Wiz is a victim of its odd appearance and it doesn’t look to be crammed with creature comforts either, I can’t say as I have never seen one. The Wiz (hmmm, note to self, Wiz ad, ease on down the road) is further victimized by way of its generation one battery tech, a painful and costly step for a small company. GM’s battery lab is currently testing 155 new chemistries as we speak and new ones arrive almost daily. And if you don’t think China and Japan are not hard at work along the same lines I would have to question your sanity. Of course batteries will be expensive initially and the best of the battery powered ilk will most likely be purchased by people with deep pockets, but that was also the case for the first petrol powered cars. Secondly, it’s not an either or proposition you and Teg can wiz along in your petrol or beloved diesel powered transport in concert with the rise of the electric car without too much discomfort except maybe a little elbow pain as you shake your fist at the whippersnapper who just cut you off in a Tesla.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

James Ruppert — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:13:05 GMT

Dan, I've no issue with battery hybrids and the fact that Toyota and Honda make them is doubly reassuring. Nope it is the full on batteries which do and will need replacing sooner rather than later. I love the idea of not having to pump in petrol and I want an affordable and practical alternative to a fuel that is going to run out.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

Dan McNeil — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:00:04 GMT

Come off it James. Stop being cynical, stop repeating what others say and do some research. Myth about batteries in hybrids lasting 5 minutes is just that - a myth. Just one of many, may myth-busting bits of info here:

www.motorauthority.com/toyota-prius-taxi-tops-340000mi-dispels-battery-myth.html

This rings true when Toyota say they've replaced only a couple of batteries ever for Prius's still under the 8 year hybrid drive warranty. And replacement batteries for the Prius cost £2k, which isn't stupidly expensive either.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

James Ruppert — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:40:06 GMT

I'm old enough to remember the first bright electric future that was the Enfield Electric, which looked not unlike a Wiz, but it was bigger. Motoring hacks seldom have the power to stop anything, they tried to stop the Allegro and Marina and failed. I've driven a 130mpg Prius with British tech in it, don't know whether the company has got £25m from Gordon though. Prove a cynic like me, and lapsed Battery Vehicle Society member wrong. Meanwhile I'm with Teg on the told you so front.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

jackjflash — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:26:48 GMT

This why you have no homegrown automotive industry to speak of, the British motoring press is more inclined to kill electric transportation in its crib than to consider the possibilities of a successful new industry. I guess you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

TegTypeR — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:21:52 GMT

The battery is the biggest long term issue with an electric vehicle, which is why I believe that cars powered by current are not going to be a viable alternative to good solid low emission combustion engined cars for at least the next ten years.

Mind you, there will probably be enough people brainwashed by both the environmentalists and the government to buy the current generation vehicles. I just can't wait to hear their protests when it comes time to spend out on a new power cell! I'll be sitting here saying, "told you so!".

re: Electric dreams - and nightmares

jonfortwo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:20:57 GMT

I think the manufacturers should carry quite a bit of responsibility for our suspicion. Why do all these cars look so "odd". G-Wiz aside, the Toyota Prius is a bit freakish outside with a bizarre futuristic (ahem) interior and this Kangoo thing looks laughable.

Do a "normal" electric car and you may get somewhere, all you will then have to do is get the range up to something useable, completely re-arrange social infrastructure in every major town and city to allow recharging and get some control in the cost of leccy.

re: Why aerodynamics are no longer a drag

noluddite — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:59:13 GMT

As you know, drag increases with the square of speed. With our traffic choked roads, and official consumption figures based around tests at fairly low speeds, it therefore is no surprise that manufacturers are now placing less emphasis on drag, and more on the drivetrain.

re: Why aerodynamics are no longer a drag

David Targett — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:49:51 GMT

The relevant figure is CdA - multiplying the coefficient of drag by the car's frontal area to get the actual drag created. A BMW X5 could have an incredible Cd, but it would still take a lot of shove to push it through the air at motorway speeds.

re: Why aerodynamics are no longer a drag

macaroni — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:39:53 GMT

Like all trends, it became a big selling point and then the hysteria died and it became commonplace. See also turbochargers, 16v, 4x4 and safety. Hopefully the same will happen to this eco nonsense very soon.