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Wed
Jun 04 2008

Missing the CO2 point

Ed Keohane

Whether it is Iain Carson’s comment piece in today’s Guardian – Only stiff rules will drive car makers to see past the petrol – or GM’s likely sale of Hummer, there’s a point being missed across the board.

What car makers and car drivers need is a stable fuel price that does not distort the market with artificially cheap domestic electricity and gas… or artificially expensive petrol and diesel.

Most people are too busy complaining about turning timber waste into biofuel to see the wood for the trees.

If CO2 is the issue, and it’s certainly the political one, then it’s ridiculous that plug-in hybrids are suddenly viable simply because the oil price is high - it has dropped by nearly 10% over the last fortnight, incidentally.

If we all start recharging our electric vehicles at home, then the tax on and cost of electricity will rise enormously and we’ll end up buying incredibly cheap, second-hand V8 saloons.

A stable oil price would allow companies to make the correct long-term engineering investments without the suspicion that the market would change drastically and they’d have yet another expensive white elephant on their hands.

Lower drag coefficients reduce fuel consumption at cruising speeds and lower kerb weights reduce the fuel consumption in town. The Audi A2 was superbly on message, but too far ahead of the car-buying public. 

Fortunately, both these design criteria improve the driving experience. They are, as it were, the writing on the wall. It’s a shame that – until now – only Mazda has been able to read it… and then sell the cars.

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About Ed Keohane

Says his job description should be shown at the Smithsonian as one of the longest documents in the English language. Likes small cars and simple 4x4s that he can mend himself.

Comments

NiallOswald June 4, 2008 6:00 PM

"If we all start recharging our electric vehicles at home"

You say this as if overnight everyone in the country is going to switch from petrol to electric cars. Hardly a likely situation.

Depending on what the real truth about oil reserves is, I wouldn't be surprised if, by the time electric cars are truly feasible, the price of oil has risen again due to scarce supplies and the costs of extracting it from 'non-traditional' sources (tar sands, oil shale etc).

lukemedway June 4, 2008 6:45 PM

Niall, I think Ed is suggesting that people are only thinking about the switch over to alleged "green" vehicles simply because the current oil burners are becoming financially crippling to run, NOT because they are making a consciencious bid to save the planet. Therefore people are missing the point.

I don't think we'll run out of oil soon, I think there's a hell of alot more out there than most people think... But we're supposed to be thinking of alternatives and that's the point.

NiallOswald June 4, 2008 9:45 PM

That all depends on what your view on the whole 'green' and CO2 issue is. The massive increase in the number of diesel cars has been driven by the combination of the technology improving and financial motivations, not 'saving the planet'. I see no reason why it's any different for electric cars - the parallels are obvious.

coolGav June 5, 2008 9:02 AM

Exactly, I brought a diesel last year because it could get 50% further on the same amount of fuel, and therefore save me money driving 15k a year. Now that there's more demand for diesel the price is higher than petrol. So I don't save as much as I'd expected.

I agree that the price of oil should be stable, probably having a steady yearly rise in cost. Together with the development of alternatives, the world can be weaned off of oil. We might have oil for another 25, 50, or even 250 years, but supply will at some point dwindle.

As far as the A2, I would have brought one for my wife if only they did it with the DSG gearbox. 1.6FSI SE in Mauritius blue.

kerrecoe June 5, 2008 9:36 AM

I think it's easy to miss the point actually. There are so many opinions & theories, often conflicting and much of it is the product of propaganda and counter-propaganda. Personally, I think  a large chunk of the current CO2 hysteria is due to governments finding new ways to tax us. However, oil prices are volatile, supplies are easily squeezed and corruption is rife. Also, pollution from vehicles (particularly those large HGV's that insist on driving through every village High Street they can find) makes us ill. If we had a viable, alternative way of powering our cars I am certain we would embrace it wholeheartedly, if only so that we can retain our dependence on personal transport without surrendering our principles to oil-producing nations. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I am not paranoid and I do love the freedom my car gives me. If a manufacturer was able to provide me with a personal vehicle that removed me from oil-dependency (and the consequential tax implications) I would be a very happy man. That vehicle isn't an electric one- that technology really does miss the point as far as I can tell.

NiallOswald June 5, 2008 12:03 PM

How do electric cars 'miss the point'? What do you suggest as an alternative to oil for powering our cars?

One of the biggest advantages of an electric car is that it can be run on coal, oil, gas, biomass, solar, wind, wave, tidal or nuclear derived power - it makes no difference. Hydrogen may have a part to play, but it's not a primary energy source, it's a storage medium much like batteries.

Until someone invents a way of replicating photosynthesis artificially in order to turn water, CO2 and sunlight into hydrocarbon fuels industrially I don't know what other options exist for an 'oil independent' car.

lukemedway June 5, 2008 7:28 PM

Yeah but in the UK, we don't have the energy infrastructure to cope with electric cars anyway, not without burning the equivalent in fossil fuels and compromising our life styles.

Maybe in France where they get 80% of their power from nuclear power stations, might they benefit. To be honest though, oil powered cars as still the most efficient and cleanest way to travel in my opinion, the alternatives and what they claim to be are a complete joke. That said, I think  they are also neccassary for our advancement in technology. If we can get electric cars to be on par with gas powered performance cars of today, all the while running on renewable energies and emitting less toxic chemicals... I'm all for it. Until then, no thanks.

NiallOswald June 5, 2008 10:56 PM

I had this 'discussion' with JJB and 'loather' very recently. Whilst switching to running the 30M-vehicle fleet from the grid would result in a not insignificant rise in annual electrical energy demand, it's well within the capabilities of the currently installed generating capacity. Due to having to accommodate large daily and seasonal variations in demand, over a year there's a lot of spare capacity which could be used for this purpose.

Furthermore, the overall energy conversion efficiency (starting from fossil fuels) of electric vehicles is higher than that of most ICE-powered vehicles and in general their energy demand per unit distance is lower (primarily but not entirely due to the use of regenerative braking). If you start from the same fuel, the electric car will be 'cleaner' or cheaper on a mile-by-mile fuel cost basis.

Cost, range, performance and whole-of-life energy considerations are the main problems for EVs at the moment. The first three should be surmountable, getting reliable figures on the latter is more difficult.

lukemedway June 6, 2008 8:50 PM

Ok but what happens to the batteries once a vehicle has expired in it's life cycle? If there were 30 million batteries lying around the place, I think that too would have a negative impact on the environment... Do we have the technology to recycle these batteries yet?

kerrecoe June 7, 2008 10:20 AM

I guess the point IS that EV's don't really solve the 'problem', they just shift it somewhere else. That's part of the problem that I have with this whole CO2 issue. If we really had a major problem, the solution wouldn't be EV's. I'm very sorry Niall but I don't know what the solution should be and you are obviously much more knowledgeable about this topic than the rest of us.

What I can say with confidence, is that, for me at least, the problem isn't CO2, it's our oil dependency (which compromises us significantly in global power terms) and the fact that western governments have discovered a new way to steal the clothes off our backs by taxing that dependency in the name of 'environmentalism' (SIC). I guess that EV's are a partial solution to that problem because we would become less oil dependent and, in UK at least, more coal dependent (or nuclear, ultimately) which does make sense.

Personally, I think there are better technologies around the proverbial corner that make everything we have done so far obselete- I have that much faith in the scientific progress we are making right now. What I don't have faith in is that auto manufacturers really care what they sell us so long as we buy it, and to a greater extent, I have no faith that our governments will allow such technologies to progress and develop as they might because to do so would be to lose a vast tax source. That did sound a bit 'conspiracy theorist' but I mean that it is not in the interests of our governments to encourage (at least) new technology that would truly solve this 'problem'.

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