Motor shows - All Comments

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

streaky — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 20:27:36 GMT

I am still not convinced that an expensive and space robbing multi-link suspension is money well spent. Just compare the Mini and Citroen DS3; the latter seems to give better results with a simpler but better tuned layout. I very much agree with Broughster's comment that whatever solution is used, the results are worsened by horrible alloys and low profile tyres!

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

BriMarsh — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:55:11 GMT

I'm not a knuckle-tapper (perhaps a t-shirt design?) nor a slush-mound stroker. I like a dashboard to look good, be rattle free and be easy to use but I don't feel the need to endlessly touch it. What concerns me is that trying to achieve both 'percieved quality' in the cabin and 'trick suspension' underneath, manufacturers will be inclined to skimp on the quality of components like exhausts, radiators, wheel bearings, ECUs etc.

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

Big S — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:24:50 GMT

well, if this has re-engineered Alfa in the chassis instead of an expensive clean-sheet design perhaps they could afford the interior too if they chose to? But I suspect that a different badge will be used to go with the sharper interior. Fiat is learning from VW - Dodge is the value (Skoda-equivalent) brand. What else is coming on the same platform?

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

275not599 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 16:06:26 GMT

Bomb hits the bull's eye.

I don't particularly care whether the plastic is soft-touch, it's more important to me that it lines up neatly with its neighbour, doesn't rattle, doesn't scuff easily, and doesn't fade or smell in strong sunlight.

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

bomb — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:14:23 GMT

Given the paucity of opportunities for working folk with families to enjoy their cars to the full these days it's not entirely surprising that buyers are looking for comfortable interiors.

Combined with sky-high fuel prices and squeezed wallets there isn't much leeway for paying for shredded tyres or another tankful of V Power.

I'd personally prefer both a plush interior and well-sorted dynamics. The 1% of ownership time that might be dedicated to flinging it around bends can be joyous but, in the grand scheme of things, comfort, economy, value, safety & reliability are top of the list these days.

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

RadeB — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 13:04:50 GMT

I agree with matsoc here.

If you make investments in the beginning, sophisticated production line, and the supply chain, you make the production cheaper and hence bigger profits from the end product.

Than, the reacher you are, the more investments you can make and the circle goes on...

The more powerful you are, the more possibility for blackmailing the suppliers with : take it or leave it!

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

6th.replicant — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:59:51 GMT

Ah, the old conundrum - plush cabin or compromised engineering and reliability?

Notoriously, when two Ford el supremos sat in the then-new Golf Mk4 at a motor show, they were stunned by its cabin quality: soft-touch plastics; switchgear with precision-feel 'clickyness'; a flock-lined glovebox etc.

"How the hell do they do all this for the car's list price??" pondered the bemused Ford duo.

In time, Golf Mk4 owners had the answer: massive cost-cutting re underskin components, such as leaking door-seals, rear wipers and front bulkheads; 'short-life' coil-packs and MAFs; and what must've been all of five minutes allocated to the car's ride/handling setup.

In short, the engineering budget was 'robbed' to pay for the interior design budget.

However, the current Golf also has a plush cabin, but also has decent(ish) reliability, and it's a decent steer.

Yet, pro-rata, there hasn't been a price hike. Which begs the question: where/how has VW 'robbed Peter to pay Paul' this time?

Of course, reports that VW's current forced-induction engines guzzle oil has no significance...

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

michael knight — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:49:54 GMT

Good article. Reminds me of the 205Gti vs. Golf Gti dilemna, back in the day. Ignore the Pug's general wafer-thin flimsiness for the trade-off lightness and agility?

I always used to value the driving-pleasure approach but now i do quite fancy a soft-close glovebox.

(hangs head in shame)

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

optimal_909 — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 12:09:26 GMT

Another way to ask it how Hyundai can afford those multi-links in an i30. Or perhaps Dodge as a badge isn't worth as much?

I would rather blame the Morchionne-style rushed development. You don't need knuckles here - those rounded LCD displays look cheap from the distance, so does the the whole dashboard.

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

ordinary bloke — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:19:37 GMT

Interesting article, particularly to see how much they sell the car for in the States, about £10,200 at today's exchange rates I think, which is city car money in Europe. Assuming that Ford's costs are roughly the same as Dodge's (as they must compete in their biggest market, the US), why can't they make money in Europe with the same cars when they charge so much more for them ? Or am I missing something ?

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

Broughster — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:14:03 GMT

The current golf (mk6?) shows that you don't have to sacrifice trim quality for handling/ride and it seems to sell pretty well.

I am much more concerned that manufacturers are pandering to our base instincts and giving us huge alloy wheels that destroy the ride quality.

So, the higher spec the model you choose, the worse the ride quality...

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

matsoc — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 11:09:15 GMT

I think that a mass produced car today has to try to have both quality interiors and quality chassis construction. It can be done investing more at the beginning. Dedicated tooling today can make producing complex chassis parts cheap but the volumes are crucial, big errors in predicting them can be devastating

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

macaroni — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:50:05 GMT

I too, as a car enthusiast, don't give a hoot for soft-feel plastics, but do care for a well-set up chassis.

However, as said above, it seems the majority of car buyers want a quality interior above all else.

How else do you explain VWs increasing dominance?

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

TegTypeR — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:28:40 GMT

I am with you Hilton but as you suggest, the majority of the buying public probably aren't.

Unfortunately the driving enthusiast seems to be a dying breed (that and certainly in this country we are less and less able to exploit the mechanical side of our cars to the full) so the interior seems to be becoming ever more important to the average driver.

The big question now has to be has Dodge taken the right route with the Dart? Worryingly for them, I'm not so sure.

re: Dodge Dart: not for the knuckle-tappers

superstevie — Mon, 30 Jan 2012 10:14:20 GMT

For the just over 10k this costs, I would be happy with a cheaper interior, think most would!