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Octavia November 24, 2009 5:28 PM

could the new (-5 be one of the best cars never to be launched? Could the car conceivably see the light of day as an up scale GM product under a different brand?

kairoo November 24, 2009 6:37 PM

stunning news.

is it due to the Swedish govt's non underwriting of the EIB loan to Saab or have the boys in GM HQ Detroit ballsed-up again? has the 'Two metre Texan', GM's new chairman, Whitacre, thrown another wrench in the works, after Opel?

looks like you're right though. looks like another MG Rover case. Chinese get what they want from a broken company after all grand rescue plans have failed. then lift and shift main assets to Middle Kingdom. question is though, if GM was so against Opel going to Magna due to the Ruskies getting their hands on GM's world car platform tech what will they say to the Chinese getting the same through the Epsilon II(Insignia) based new 9-5? will it be double standards? after all, China is regarded as the US's banker. best not to flip the bird to your banker, unlike the disposable Ruskies.

Scoobman November 24, 2009 7:55 PM

Surely the Chinese, or whoever acquires Saab's assets, will not be able to acquire rights to the platform or anything else which is licenced from GM. Those rights will terminate with the bankruptsy of the company.

JackB November 24, 2009 8:11 PM

Surely the collapse of Saab will be sad news for all petrolheads, but I'm afraid the fact the company was only once profitable in past 20 years isn't something any serious economist could ignore.

And the fact that since 1993 Saabs were considered as reskinned Vectras didn't help much...

Wanger November 24, 2009 9:08 PM

Its sad that a company that had the potential to offer truly different and premium products such as Saab, has been left to go to the wall by the wonderfull (not!) strategic planning of GM.

But the way things are going the main bulk of car production and manufacturing will be with a small number of parent companies re-branding what is essentially the same vehicle.

Saabs problem was that model span life, went on too long for its products that were based upon yester-years Opel/Vauxhalls (that was never going to be good enough in a market that is as competitive as the lower and medium executive ranges) also why change model range names? everyone knew that a 900 was the lower sporting exec and the 9000 was the larger exec model...pointless exercise in confusing buyers!

Saabs then ended up relying upon marketing bumpf of vague aircraft associations without any real hi-tech aero feel to its later ranges of 9-3 and 9-5... ( trilby specials )

Maybe someone will buy the badge and then go back to producing a range of turbo-charged hybrids in coupe, convertible and fastback premium forms that cut it in technology terms...Think the Swedish government should bail out Saab like we bailed out our banks?

Least the Swedes would then have pride, employment and something to show for their tax payers cash?

TVaagen November 24, 2009 11:05 PM

Couldn't this easily mean that GM will hold on to SAAB as a European prestige brand? With a model range closely integrated (technologically) to the Opel/Vauxhall range, this could provide GM with the sale of an additional 150 - 200' units with moderate development cost.

jackjflash November 25, 2009 12:36 AM

Wanger sez: Maybe someone will buy the badge and then go back to producing a range of turbo-charged hybrids in coupe, convertible and fastback premium forms that cut it in technology terms...Think the Swedish government should bail out Saab like we bailed out our banks?

Well evil GM gave the Swedes the opportunity to do just that, Koenigsegg Group was to be backed by their banks until their new car was ready and the banks didn’t follow through. You see it’s much easier to criticize GM's failure than to try and do something like building a car to compete in an already crowded segment, truth is Saab deserves to die; the quirky, sport/luxury segment is a hard nut to crack in this financial environment.

Wanger sez: Least the Swedes would then have pride, employment and something to show for their tax payers cash?

You mean like Jag, Aston, and LR..., when Jag and LR came up for sale I didn’t see any British investors rushing in to the rescue, the general populace seemed quite content to see Ford carry the responsibility for the destiny of those marques. Ford was smart and off loaded them while they were worth something; I guess timing is everything because they could have suffered the same fate as Saab. If it weren’t for Tata and Kuwaiti investors, Jag, LR and Aston could be teats up as well, so much for national pride.

jackjflash November 25, 2009 12:42 AM

Cart sez: GM's new chairman, Whitacre, thrown another wrench in the works, after Opel?

More like a large Texas sized boot in Merkels cart.

jackjflash November 25, 2009 12:56 AM

TVaagen sez: Couldn't this easily mean that GM will hold on to SAAB as a European prestige brand? With a model range closely integrated (technologically) to the Opel/Vauxhall range, this could provide GM with the sale of an additional 150 - 200' units with moderate development cost.

And who is going to buy the 150 - 200' units; the problem isn’t development cost; it’s over production of about 20% to 25%. If the Swedes will not build and buy their own cars in their own market what chance does GM have of selling them, a snowball chance in...well you know the rest.

HiltonH November 25, 2009 1:40 AM

Kairoo

If Saab does go bust, any buyer would get the badge and probably the heavily-modified Epsilon 1 platform that's under the 9-3 range.

The big, big problem for Saab is that it is very hard to build cars in Krona and sell them in dollars at a profit.

But maybe the new owner could do a deal to build 9-5s in an American or Chinese Epsilon 2 factory? Alongside the Buick Regal (aka Vauxhall Insignia) perhaps?

Old Toad November 25, 2009 5:02 AM

Lets face it Saab has had it . How could it cope  in an overcrowded market . Like Rover it was starved of investment and recent models have only been average at best and frankly the new model does not make me want to rush out and buy it if it is built either.

Sad to see the individualism die but there is not the volume to be profitable.

Straff November 25, 2009 8:38 AM

I'm afraid I agree with the doom and gloom. Can you imagine what production costs must be like in Sweden? How many of those up in arms on other websites have actually bought a Saab? Analysts have been saying for years that there are too many car manufacturers and too few purchasers - some have got to fall by the wayside and it looks like Saab's one of them.

optimal_909 November 25, 2009 8:39 AM

Kairoo, I don't think these minor things matter in diplomacy - and take a look on the newly imposed duty on Chinese tyres. China is at least as dependent on US lending as US itself.

Saab is simply insignficant in terms of size, patents and brand value compared to Opel. Speaking about the brand: not exlusive enough for small volume, too worn and exhausted for big volume (especially if we consider how difficult to compete in the mainstream-premium). It would be one of the worst investment I can think on.

Cheltenhamshire November 25, 2009 8:58 AM

Scoobman, once the Chinese buy the remnants of Saab you can be sure that the tech will be transferred, IP or no IP.  Have you not seen the output of Chery, Geely & BYD??  Toyota, Fiat & GM have been having lots of fun trying to protect their IP from these brands.  I look forward to seeing the Changan Saabio Grand Chairman when it launches next year.

RobotBoogie November 25, 2009 10:26 AM

Considering that we are now around 18 months into world recession, perhaps the big surprise is that the motor industry has lost almost nothing in the way of production capacity, even though it went into the recession with a huge excess of it. But the vultures are circling and some companies are going to have to go. While Saab has been periodically interestingly quirky over the years, it hasn't actually made a car that was much good for a long, long time.

MattDB November 25, 2009 11:40 AM

SAAB's biggest problem is that nobody wants to own them or care about the brands history as GM killed it's reputation years ago.  We have all briefly mourned the passing of once great british brands and so it's time for the Swedes to have thir moment.  Clearly their own goverment feels the same way and has no time for nostalgia.  The new 9-5 should be facelifted to become the new posh Vauxhall (AKA Carlton/Omega) and should be built on Insignia lines to improve production in Germany and fend off the grumpy Germans who now thinnk they will be the brunt of GM redundancies.