Autocar - First for car news and reviews

Lee23404 May 27, 2010 11:54 AM

Never driven in Belgium (why would I want to?) but in my experience the worst are the Dutch. Now I like the Dutch but put them in a car, especially if its towing a caravan and they appear to lose any sort of coordination or sense. In Italy last summer me and my family were nearly wiped out by Dutch towing caravans.

Italians are not nearly as bad as some might suggest and the Germans are vastly over rated. I was expecting first class lane discipline when I drove in Germany for the first time last year but what I found was no better than here. The French and even the Italians do lane discipline better.

artill May 27, 2010 12:00 PM

I dont know about lumping a whole nation together, but if we can go for towns and citys in the UK, i nominate Bradford. No where else in the UK have i seen such amazingly bad driving. There is no point in listing what they get up to there, its everything you could imagine, and then you see something else you hadnt seen before and would never believe possible. Its probably a good place to learn to drive though, because if you can cope there you will probably cope anywhere

289 May 27, 2010 12:09 PM

Definitely Belgians, by a large margin...give them a wide berth at all times and expect the unexpected!

Dutch have their moments too. they have a high propensity for hovering about 1 metre from your rear bumper...this distance is invariably halved when the road is wet. Hence the numbers of delays due to multiple car shunts on their motorways.

Benji27 May 27, 2010 12:19 PM

I disagree. And not only because I am Belgian. ;-)

It's actually the first time I've read somewhere that we could be the worst driver in Europe... We have a pretty low accident rate (ok, higher than in the UK) but significantly better that France or Germany.

Road disciplin (in the highways) seem pretty good to me, despite a certain tendency for mild speeding.

Texting and/or phoning was banned while driving well before the UK did (and people seem to comply with it), and since we have one of the lowest percentage of smokers in Europe, I do not see very often smoking drivers neither...

Maybe you were in the wrong country ? This will explain the "tediously flat but wondrously straight and direct road network" bit (You've never been to Spa, did you ?)

To see really ludicrous driving, most of the continental europeans agree that the French are the worst : agressive driving, tailgating, endlessly sitting on the outside lane in their 1.2l Clios, overtaking from the inside, driving in cars which clearly have never seen an MOT,...  Except for the French, who will say that the Italians are the worst drivers...

And for the "tricky art" of car building, I do not remember anybody complaining about our craftmanship in building Ford Mondeos, Vauxall Astras, VW Golfs, Passats (and soon Audi A1), Volvo S80, V70 and S60 that are regularly delivered to the UK... In fact, Belgium produces more cars than the UK...

Maybe you should leave the tricky art of writing reports about fellow Europeans to somebody else ? ;-)

Benji (driving a Nissan GTR and not texting ;-) )

Lee23404 May 27, 2010 12:30 PM

"And for the "tricky art" of car building, I do not remember anybody complaining about our craftmanship in building Ford Mondeos,"

You obviously never read any of my posts on the Mondeo I had then. It was a heap of junk which was clearly assembled by either morons or the visually impaired.

chandrew May 27, 2010 12:36 PM

The Germans have a joke about Dutch driving:

What do you get if you fail your driving test 3 times?

Yellow registration plates.

I'm not sure the Belgians are that bad, though their well-lit motorways could do with a bit of work.  The Dutch do like tailgating, though their motorway network can make SE England look empty.  The French I don't think tailgate, more try and use your slipstream to get up hills in their clios.  The Swiss drive to the law instead of using common sense on what is safe.  Germans seem to think their cars make them invincible.  Italians are funny - I know a bunch of wealthy Milanese who run old small cars in town and only repair them if it is undrivable; accidents are treated as frequent, inevitable events that aren't really worth bothering about.

A few recent trips back to the UK highlighted the poor lane discipline.  In fact if the government wanted to reduce the debt they could just sell the land  currently used by the first lanes of the motorways.  Nobody seems to use them so there shouldn't be much protest.

Lesia44 May 27, 2010 12:39 PM

Mercedes drivers.

nicksheele May 27, 2010 12:49 PM

You're right mate. In 1940 the Brits were so terrified of Belgian drivers half a million of them turned around and legged it to Dunkirk.

lukas185632 May 27, 2010 12:55 PM

The worst drivers are from Poland... Trust me... Also look at the quality of roads in Poland. It is awful.

Peter Cavellini May 27, 2010 12:57 PM

France, Poland,Austria, anywhere in Europe except Blighty of course!

289 May 27, 2010 1:09 PM

Benji, dont take it to heart...its not all bad news, the food in Belgium is the best in Europe...way better than the overated, (by themselves) French.

However I drive a lot across Europe and virtually every big accident I see has a Belgian registered car at thr source...its a standing joke in several countries.

Dont blame you for standing your ground though...half the drivers in this country should hand in their licence immediately!

coolboy May 27, 2010 1:10 PM

Mister Steve, IMHO you lost it all!

what's the point of this rant towards Belgiums??

By the way, be awere, Belgium is the biggest car producer per capita...

anyway, I`m note aware`s still being, anyway I`m not the jurno, I`m not working at Autocar... you can always move your a...

British are soo damm cool, the last big thing from yours was BL...

marktobin May 27, 2010 1:14 PM

women! hehehe

MattDB May 27, 2010 1:20 PM

Very short old people.  Can see over the wheel and can't see in general.

Brits abroad, especially those having a go in a LHD hire car for the first time can give you grey hair, and also don't forget mother in laws, very terrible!!

Colonel Snappy May 27, 2010 1:28 PM

I wouldn't say the Belgians are the worst - they are very aggressive, and a bit too fond of large SUVs, but at least they get a move on, and seem to have some idea about lane discipline. The worst in my experience are the Dutch, who are soooooooo slow everywhere (I knew dope was legal there, I didn't realise it was compulsory!), and the British, for their atrocious lane (in)discipline.

Cheltenhamshire May 27, 2010 1:29 PM

The worst drivers in Europe are located in London, and they tend to be of Indian sub continent or African extraction and behind the wheel of an Addison Lee people carrier.  No lane discipline, thinks the indicator is the automatic right to barge into a space that is not there .... tailgating, speeding and double parked ... they are a menace.  

Fletcher52 May 27, 2010 1:35 PM

I agree about the Belgians, but I would like to add the fact that in my experience the reason for their ineptitude is simply that they are drunk.

Why has no one mentioned the horrifying driving standards encountered in the Balkans?  The fun starts in Slovenia which is much like Belgium and gets progressively more erratic the further south you go.  For some proof type "Slovenia" into Youtube.

Fletcher52 May 27, 2010 1:35 PM

I agree about the Belgians, but I would like to add the fact that in my experience the reason for their ineptitude is simply that they are drunk.

Why has no one mentioned the horrifying driving standards encountered in the Balkans?  The fun starts in Slovenia which is much like Belgium and gets progressively more erratic the further south you go.  For some proof type "Slovenia" into Youtube.

Rich boy spanners May 27, 2010 1:50 PM

You don't need to go as far as Belgium. The worst drivers in Eyurope are found on Manchester's M60 'Outer Ring Road'. A hodge podge motorway bunged together out of numerous others as badly as it possible to do so. Combine the drivers and the road and it's scary.

braisim May 27, 2010 1:52 PM

Living in Belgium for the last 13 years I can confirm that the Belgians can be pretty horrendous drivers. However, this needs to be qualified - in Flanders, in the north of the country, the general standard is better, whereas Brussels is a complete disaster, due, I think, to the large number of different nationalities driving none of whom have a clue as to the local highway code, and to the terrible design of intersections, etc., in the capital.

However, in general the Belgians are awful tailgaters on the motorway and are often drunk. Not once in my thirteen years here have I ever seen a roadside breathalyser test or even heard of anyone I know being breathalysed... Drink-driving is something of a national sport.

Lee23404 May 27, 2010 2:00 PM

@Fletcher52 - "Why has no one mentioned the horrifying driving standards encountered in the Balkans?"

Good point. I did some driving in Montenegro last year. Beautiful country but overtaking occurs when they reach the back of the slower car, not when there's any sort of gap.

scrap May 27, 2010 2:15 PM

Well this is jolly good sport.

And nice to see that someone from the shires has taken the opportunity to take a pop at dark-skinned foreigners too... how pleasant.

Maybe we should look at the inattentive and selfish driving in Britain before going down this self-righteous road, eh?

crashbangwallop May 27, 2010 2:16 PM

Has nobody been to India?  Belgiums are non-starters

crashbangwallop May 27, 2010 2:19 PM

Apologies, didn't read the thread. I see it was restricted to Europe, but it did go on to say the Universe.  So if I can't vote for India, then my vote goes to Lorry Drivers.  Unable to stop at roundabouts and taking half an hour to pass each other on the A1.

BadgerChap May 27, 2010 2:23 PM

If you've ever considered driving in Greece, don't.  Ever.  Completely feckless and judging by recent descriptions in the news, the main quality required to pass the driving test is a wad of cash.

Having said that, rather than getting a little too xenophobic, British drivers have some pretty major failings too.  

They (we, although I like to think I avoid the following): are often incapable of negotiating a roundabout with correct indication, virtually never return to lane 1 on the motorway, have no idea what is coming up behind them and I'm sorry to see more and more phones being used at the wheel...  

S Moore May 27, 2010 2:37 PM

With lane (in)discipline in the UK so bad it is a bit rich to wave the finger at other European countries. Over the past few years I've driven back to the UK regularly from Switzerland and the journey through France always better then the stretch from Dover. I've found the French are pretty good at looking in their rear-view mirror and will move over to let faster traffic past, which rarely happens in the UK where it seems that 90% of the traffic drives in the "overtaking" lane.

Rob 7 May 27, 2010 3:13 PM

I drive more on the other side of the Channel than I do in the UK, mostly in France, Germany, Austria and yes, Belgium. I honestly haven't seen much bad driving in Belgium, and lane discipline is far, far better than it is here, Britons must be the worst in Europe. Despite what an earlier poster said, lane discipline in Germany & France is as good as it is anywhere, the Italians are good at this too, though the driving there can be pretty scary at times. The French are manic tailgaters, and I've followed a few frogs who I'm pretty certain were drunk, despite the fact that their drink drive laws are stricter than in the UK. Let's face it, nobody's perfect, all nations have their bad drivers, but it's most unfair to single out the Belgians.

sierra May 27, 2010 3:16 PM

Brits are worst - drive at excessive speeds between traffic jams, and then sit there moaning about speed cameras and cost of fuel

index1000 May 27, 2010 4:20 PM

Easy, the worst in Europe would have to be an Australian on his holidays.

Pauldalg May 27, 2010 4:41 PM

When I saw the headline my first thought was "Belgians" having done some serious miles in Europe over the years.

Seems to infect the North of France bordering Belgium too though, and not just Belgian registered cars.

They have a "don't give a damn" attitude to lane discipline, and seem oblivious to anything around - maybe their eyesight testing regime is poor in Belgium?

In the UK it's a close run thing with weegies (Glaswegians) who thunder across multiple lanes without indicating or looking, no point to argue or they'll probably get out and stab you though ;)

And bank holiday drivers between Manchester and Birmingham. Seem to think they're travelling in a super protected box where nothing can harm them so they don't need to concentrate at all.

PS - I like all the Belgians I know, so please keep supplying the beer Luc ....

Cheltenhamshire May 27, 2010 4:48 PM

Scrap, careful you don't hurt yourself falling off your high horse.

Pointing out that Addison Lee's asian and black african drivers seem on the whole totally appalling is not racist but a fact.  Did I mention all asian and black drivers are bad ... no I did not, because it is not a racist comment but one based simply on the fact that driving from the shires to Hammersmith weekly the standard of driving dips once within Addison Lee's area of east of the M25 and into town.  Like I said, get off your high horse and contribute.  No doubt as you seem to be one of those PC numpties you will say that the worst drivers are white, middle class males simply because that is what your fellow nut stew eating lefties expect you to say.  I imagine.  *rolls eyes*

adam2853 May 27, 2010 5:20 PM

From extensive experience, the Swiss are generally the best.

GENERALLY:  Germans are the most aggressive, Italians the most 'enthusuastic' (read into that what you will) and in my humble opinion we Brits are generally the simply a dawdling bunch of insecure and lazy ditherers.  Belgians are no worse than the French, which is still not great, but at least they occasionally occupy the inside lane.....    

Old Toad May 27, 2010 5:25 PM

Sicilians without a doubt are the pits when it comes to driving in Europe.

However I see someone voted for India as the worst in the world I can concur with that . With over a quarter of a million fatalities in RTAs every year they prove themselves to be the most dangerous too.

However parent outside of schools in the uk are very scary 90 % attention on their sprogs and none on other road users remaining 10 % on txtng the mobile phone .

Lee23404 May 27, 2010 5:40 PM

Old Toad - I quite enjoyed driving in Sicily. I remember having a guy in a red Alfa right up the chuff of the Smart car hire car I was in, cigarette in one hand and phone in the other, steering with his um... We saw him at the next petrol station, phone still in hand and still smoking.

I also like the way that the two lanes that run through Palermo automatically become 4 during rush hour by the locals cramming two rows of cars in to each lane. Genious.

tannedbaldhead May 27, 2010 8:36 PM

I find the Brits reasonably good with the exception of lane discipline. You never need to convince an Italian or Frenchman you are prepared to drive over his roof before he will move aside to let faster cars by. Brits must get a hell of a fright first time they try to stay in an overtaking lane a nanosecond longer than they need to whilst abroad and discover how socially acceptable it is to sit the thickness of a coat of paint from a back bumper flashing one's headlights to clear a lane of slowcoaches.

Los Angeles May 27, 2010 8:51 PM

Oh dear, we have sunk to rock bottom shok jock twitter: an entire nation cast as idiot drivers. And this from England, where folk protest they will vote BNP unless immigration is severely curtailed, or if not, they will go live in Spain.

Mr£4worth May 27, 2010 9:09 PM

Come on Steve,

Here I am in Belgium having followed my Belgian friend here in his Volvo V70 estate.

Surely he not the worst driver in Europe?

But yes if you've driven a V70 you'll know the steering is so lifeless that you won't have a clue where your going, and they are so comfortable it's hard to stay awake even when driving.

Broadening the topic a little, surely the type of car is more of a factor than the driver's nationality?

I have never seen a well driven Picasso (old shape).  So lay of my Belgian friends, and instead blame the French and/or whoever designs the V70.

supek May 27, 2010 10:48 PM

I am Italian and I have been living in Belgium for 4 years  and I could not disagree more. Belgians (especially flemish) have some very strange behaviour; they get schocked if you stop on the right side of the road and they will stop still until you move again ( I have seen guys waiting for minutes before taking the initiative to overtake). they tend to give you the priority even if it's theirs (this is the most unuseful courtesy..), they surely tend to speed well above the limit on highways, and they have the worst roads of western europe, BUT they are far more disciplined than other europeans. In belgium I have never expericed the fear you can have for instance driving in the centre of Palermo or on a busy German highway were it is usual to tailgate at 220 km/h...

hamishl May 27, 2010 11:54 PM

Hmmm, I never remember seeing any accidents when living in Belgium (although I wasn't driving by then), but a friend of my Dad's who stayed with us told us about the taxi he had on the way to our place, and how he "rubbed" a guy from behind "because he cut him off". Maybe Brussels is a special case, but the roundabouts there did look particularly scary.  

theonlydt May 28, 2010 1:18 AM

Am slightly surprised at this - my general belief and experience is that drivers get better the further north you go in Europe. I have found mountain and coastal roads around the Mediterranean positively terrifying - Portugese, Spanish and French lorry drivers overtaking on blind bends, everyone speeding, vertical drops with nary a crash barrier in sight. The Mediterranean theme continues with the Maltese (crazy, especially the buses) and the Italian's view towards parking and city driving. I've always found driving in the UK much better than France and southwards, generally comparable with Germany (though without Mercs doing 155 while trucks do 60) and I generally like the Dutch, maybe I've just been there at strange times? Laid back, law abiding, cyclist aware, perhaps I'm biased as I generally like dutch people? Belgium... can't say it ever struck a chord with me positively or negatively.

TheOmegaMan May 28, 2010 1:44 AM

When driving in Belgium I did find signs prohibiting cruise control to be a bit odd...

I drove to the 'Ring and around Cologne and Frankfurt. Blasting on the autobahn was great; even when it was two lanes ppl got out of the way.

sewa May 28, 2010 9:59 AM

As an expat in Belguim I confirm this. They are agressive and reckless. This isn't about speed really but a complete lack of 'spacial awareness'.

one of my favourite scenes in Brussels: entering crossroads despite traffic ahead standing still...

sewa May 28, 2010 10:35 AM

...to be fair I should admit that things look better in the Flemish (northern) part of the country

supek May 28, 2010 12:11 PM

Aggressive and reckless the Belgians??? Ahahah this is really a good one. I do not know where you guys have been driving in all your life, but if Belgians are aggressive in their cars I am Diego Armando Maradona. Brussels is one of the easiest and least stressing capitals to drive around by car...! You guys should try driving in the centre of Rome or of Athens...

sewa May 28, 2010 1:52 PM

"Brussels is one of the easiest and least stressing capitals to drive around by car...! "

According to the recent Tom-Tom survey, its quite the opposite: www.autocar.co.uk/.../249098

supek May 28, 2010 5:33 PM

Ok, I agree with that, Brussels is very congested (mostly because of really bad design of roads, intersection and also because it does not exist a southern ring), but I really do not see the aggressivity and reckless driving. They normally stay calm in the queue and nothing happens, that's it. If you want to change line they give you the space and you go never been so easy. If you then go outside Brussels it's even easier.

CambsBill May 28, 2010 7:25 PM

Having driven around Belgium recently (and lived there in the 90's), I thought the standard had risen considerably over the years, so no, the Belgians aren't the worst.  

Scariest place in my experience was Paris, where every other car seems to have a dented door and where I saw cars doing u-turns in the middle of the Arc du Triomph because their exit was blocked - utterly bonkers the Parisiens

Phinehas May 28, 2010 7:54 PM

The worst drivers in Europe? You want their names and addresses? Well, address, since they're husband and wife, and they live here on Fuerteventura.

Belgians? Pah! Mere amateurs in comparison.

theop May 29, 2010 2:09 PM

Clearly none of you guys has been to Greece, have you?

Rob Davey June 15, 2010 2:01 PM

Firstly let me state for the record that I am an Ex-pat living in Belgium.

I've driven in most of the European countries, and have owned and driven all sorts of cars from Porsches, Jaguars, BMWs, and 4x4s.

I think that your comments of Belgians being Europes worst drivers is rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black !

your average UK driver will lane Hog in the third lane, and set up a string of tailgaters all doing 85mph down the outside lane whilst 1 & 2 are free.

The M4 & M25 as I drive from Drive back to Swindon, around London, are my most frustrating miles on trips home.

One comment has it right here, the worst Drivers in Europe are the Dutch ! Why ? because they think that if there isn't a Policeman around, it's their job to pull out in front of you to stop you speeding. if you were to react to that by taking him on the inside, you would be the worse driver in the world, a holigan.

I don't for one moment think that I am the worlds best driver, but I'm not slow, and have never had an accident that's been proven (insurance claim) to be my fault.

I think your UK Police should spend more time ticketing for lane abuse, and put less of a penalty on Speeding.

Speed does not kill, stupidity does.

Mix them together, and the Police will say "he was driving to fast, that's what killed him"

Belgians are not perfect, but then I'll bet that you are not either Mr Sutcliffe (You just think you are)

you probably went to the same school as Jeremy, Yes, Clarkson........"I'm right, and everyone else is wrong!"