Fri
Feb 26 2010

Young Ruppert takes to the car park

James Ruppert
Do you want to know how to put a smile on a teenager’s face? Teach ‘em to drive.

I know this because I took the youngest Ruppert to Bluewater Shopping Centre in Kent the other day. The Seat Young Driver programme does not take place in the shopping aisles obviously but in a designated Young Driver Zone.



When we went there were cones to drive round, but once the weather gets better, proper road markings will make the former coach park look even more like a suburban driving school rat run.

All the children need to be is more than 1,5 metres (4’11”) tall and aged between 11 and 16. They then get one to one tuition in a dual control Seat.

Watching the youngsters get behind the wheel for the first time is slightly worrying as you might expect them to stall, kangaroo and generally rev the little Ibiza into oblivion, but not a bit of it.

They concentrate and move deliberately around the course, listening intently to what they are told. In complete contrast to the way many so-called grown-ups deal with the challenge of driving.

After an hour they are more confident, happy and beaming from ear to ear. It’s a good way to start driving rather than have your Dad going mental because you’ve just burned the clutch out on his Cortina/Mondeo (delete according to your age).

Yet the great and the good can only see negatives in all this.

Inspector Alan Jones at the Police Federation said: "Driving on one of these courses at 11 years old, it's another six years until you can get a driving licence. How does it replicate the real world, the spontaneous incidents? Are kids mature enough at 11, 12, 13 years old to understand what's happening on the roads, to be able to manage all the demands and pressures? I'm not persuaded it's a good idea."

Those killjoys at The Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents were even more negative.

"While early education is a very good thing, the same does not apply to driving a car. It will probably mean youngsters will take fewer lessons when they come to learn to drive and if they take fewer lessons they will get less experience.

"That means when they pass their test they may be at greater risk of crashing because they won't have had as much experience when they are supervised"

Twerps. What I saw was young people learning vital life skills in a highly controlled environment. I’d like to know what you think and what car you first drove. Mine was an Audi 100LS.

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About James Ruppert

Used to sell BMWs, but he's no yuppie; has a '64 Mini Cooper in his garage and a '57 BSA Bantam in his house. Has bought and sold hundreds of used cars, and he isn't finished yet.

Comments

Paul123 February 26, 2010 12:45 PM

A Rover 3-Litre Coupe Automatic round an empty caravan site in Wales, I do believe, circa 1976. And, as you say, at the age off 11 or so, it's the biggest thrill imaginable.

I don't think you're ever too early to learn, if you're keen to. And your average 11 year old lad is probably far more likely to listen intently to what he's being told than when he gets to 17 and has hormones surging through him!

I'm all for young driver programmes like this. And if the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents really believes that "it will probably mean youngsters will take fewer lessons when they come to learn to drive and if they take fewer lessons they will get less experience", then it's even more out of touch with reality than I thought.

psst February 26, 2010 12:45 PM

I learned to drive before I was 17 on an airfield near York. this meant that, when I first went out on the road I knew the mechanics of driving and was practiced at them so I could concentrate on the road. I was ready to take my test in a matter of weeks after my 17th birthday. And just before anyone suggests that I wasn't really able to drive "properly" I have now been driving for 30 years and have never had an accident that was my fault. Oh and by the way, I also passed my advanced driving test at 19!

Splash n Dash February 26, 2010 12:59 PM

Rather ominously I learned to drive by going around the local hospital morgue car park. The car was a Skoda Felicia 1.4 LXi (in which the engine expired while I was at the controls).

You can never start too young fostering the love of driving, safe car control and a passion in cars in young people.

Casanova February 26, 2010 1:06 PM

What a narrow-minded, snobbish view from RoSPA.  Of course it's a good thing for kids to get their first go behind the wheel in a controlled, safe environment such as this, rather than borrowing the keys to the family hatchback when no-one's at home and trying it on the public road.

The first cars I tried at about 14 or 15 were all Citroens - my mum's ZX, my uncle's BX and my dad's XM (mainly the middle one as my uncle was the most enlightened and least precious about his car!)

NAK February 26, 2010 1:23 PM

First car I drove was an Audi 80 LS. It was a family friend’s car and we drove it in the car park of his GP practice. I remember when I was 7 going with my nearly 17 year old cousin to the local town for him to collect the application form for his provisional license. He drove the 10 odd miles there and back in his Dad’s Maxi, just the two of us and it was Market day as well so the local town was busy. That was the way in rural Ulster in the 1970s! Interestingly he wasn’t so generous with his own children and they all had to wait until they were 17.

I think the Seat scheme is to applauded and if people can pas there test with insufficient experience then it is the test that is at fault and not the individual.

Will86 February 26, 2010 1:32 PM

I managed to bunny hop my dad's Vectra down the drive before I was seventeen (dad kept a tight grip on the handbrake just in case), but other than that my first driving experience apart from the sit and ride lawnmower, was when I turned 17 and learnt on mum's Golf TDI 115 around a deserted industrial estate.

As for the Police Federation, Mr Jones appears to think these 11 year olds are on the road. Perhaps someone should remind him they are in possibly one the safest and most controlled environments possible. Of course an 11 year old cannot deal with the demands of the road, thats why they are not on the road.

I am even more dissappointed with RoSPA's attitude. A couple of hours of tuition before you're 17 is not going to make a huge impact when you finally start to learn. If anything, children growing up understanding car control will make them more aware of the risks of the roads, rather than suddenly being plunged into the world of driving on their 17th birthday.

ThwartedEfforts February 26, 2010 1:42 PM

Seat Young Driver programme - programming them to look favourably upon Seats from a young age

Lee23404 February 26, 2010 1:42 PM

This sounds like a excellent idea to me. My first driving lesson was cancelled because of snow so my dad let me drive his then nearly new MK2 Golf around the local sports centre car park. As well as being able to get the car going and stop it again the lack of grip because of the snow gave me a real appreciation of grip (or lack of) and what it could make a car do.

By the time the snow cleared and I had my first proper lesson with BSM I was able to drive straight off, first lesson with a problem and passed within 3 weeks (the earliest I could get a test). I think alot of that is down to my dad letting me slide his car around that car park.

Juleshuffers February 26, 2010 1:43 PM

I was 14 and we were on holiday in Norfolk on a farm with a good set of dirt rtacks around it. Dad had a Chrysler 2Litre auto. Went round with me the first evening to make sure I knew what i was doing and after that he just let me drive round the farm, albeuit carefully, evry evening by myself. Learnt an waful lot about steering a car in tight circumstances.

Later when I was 16 we alll used to gather at my friends which had a 100 foot drive. We would then climb into his daad's car in the garage, which was a MK11 jag, start it , drive it up and down the drive till warm, and put it away again. We just to rotate who sat in the front whilst my frind of the same age carried out the weekly freeing of the car.

I passed my test first time after 17 lessons, I'm sure the practice at an earlier age, even in an automatic stood me in good stead.

Samiur Rahman SHAH February 26, 2010 2:02 PM

The first time I drove, it was on a straight road coming back from school in our family 3 dr Pajero / Shogun diesel. I was 10 back then. Us three brothers with my father on the passenger seat. From the first day, I learnt how to change gears without jolts (a fact I'm proud of to this day, not that passengers notice anymore). Learning at that early age allowed me to develop good technical habits until I reached the legal driving age. Then incorporating the habits with real-world driving didn't seem as difficult.

By the way, we still have the ol' girl with us. I'll probably take it off my father's hands and refresh it a bit in a couple of years.

Dan McNeil v2 February 26, 2010 2:12 PM

First car I ever drove was my Dad's Ford Taunus. Think I was about 9.  First car I ever owned drove was an Austin A40 Farina.

Part of my day job involves health and safety (in its widest sense).

Mostly, health and safety is about attitude, not rules.   Attitudes ("behaviours" in safety speak) can be formed and set early in life, so schemes like this should be commended, just as the attitude of RoSPA and the small-minded policeman should be deplored.

ordinary bloke February 26, 2010 2:23 PM

I agree with the majority oif comments here - this type of scheme has to be a good idea. You'd have thought that the police and ROSPA would be pleased that kids were getting safe tuition where there is little or no chance at that age of them being under pressure from their peers to get out on the open road in a stolen or borrowed car. I also agree with the post above saying that having learned effectively the mechanics of actually driving a car before getting out on the road with an instructor means that one can concentrate on what going on around you rather than whether you're about to stall or something. Like many others I learned to drive when I was 12/12 years old and had a dad who was happy to let me use his car on private property whenever it was possible and although I had a few lessons and passed my test first time soon after my 17th birthday (that was 40 years ago) and I had a sensible attitude to it because I knew the potential dangers more. I never had that boy-racer phase as driving was not that big a deal - after all it wasn't all new and exciting. I'm proud of the fact that I've only been involved in one accident (when someone drove into the back of my car whilst I was stopped at a roundabout) in 40 years of driving, I enjoy it still and enjoy driving smoothly and fast in the right conditions. My attitude may well have been different if I learned during those horrible mixed-up hormonal teenage years.

kcrally February 26, 2010 2:48 PM

you will be very happy when young ruppert borrows dads car, aged 14, to impress his mates. my son will be using the bus until he is at least 25.

artill February 26, 2010 3:18 PM

My first drive was in my dads Allegro 1.3HL. The later one with the quad headlamps. He let me drive it around a deserted airfield near southampton. It got us out of the house while the family visited the grandparents, so being in a car with your 16 year old son driving was much better than being with the inlaws it seems.

It might well be a car that attracts a lot of insults these days but on a sunny sunday afternoon it didnt matter to me one bit.

I have not driven an Allegro since, it had been sold before my 17th birthday so i first drove on the road in a Metro, but the memory of that first drive will always be there.

Geetee40 February 26, 2010 3:28 PM

I'm still surprised that the car test doesn't follow what they do with bikes and having to pass you CBT in an off road controlled area before you can go out on the road. This type of scheme could be the green shoots of an excellent idea!!

trocadero February 26, 2010 3:34 PM

It does help if the kids can see over the steering wheel, which looks unlikely in this photo.

I agree with Geetee40 about CBT off road before being allowed on the road.

Dan McNeil v2 February 26, 2010 4:03 PM

"Geetee40 February 26, 2010 3:28 PM

I'm still surprised that the car test doesn't follow what they do with bikes and having to pass you CBT in an off road controlled area before you can go out on the road."

-------------

It doesn't surprise me.  You have to remember that the overwhelming majority of people that run our lives drive cars (or don't drive at all).    Hardly any of them ride bikes.

noluddite February 26, 2010 5:05 PM

Great idea. Put a centre on every council estate in the country and train the next generation of joy riders. Seriously though, seems like a good idea, and a good marketing move by Seat.

noluddite February 26, 2010 5:08 PM

PS> My first drive was in a VW411LE Variant, on the beach. aged about 12.

fast ed February 26, 2010 5:35 PM

My first drive

Rover SD1 2600 with a trailer on the way back from the local tip on a local private industrial estate. I was 14 at the time.  It was my Dads company car at the time.

When I had my provisional licence he had a Vauxhall Senator 2.5.

Learning to drive in a controlled enviroment at an early age is a good idea.

Dan McNeil v2 February 26, 2010 5:40 PM

"noluddite February 26, 2010 5:08 PM

PS> My first drive was in a VW411LE Variant, on the beach. aged about 12."

-------------

My 2nd car was a 411 Variant Fastback.   Various shades of silver and rust.   I spruced up the austere dashboard with Fablon wood-coloured stick-on plastic.    The engine burnt about  a pint of oil every 150 miles.   It was one of the most fun cars I've ever had - I learnt the art of lift-off oversteer in this car.  It was also the only car I've ever driven where I lost it completely (on a wet, greasy chicane) and did a virtual 360 degree spin.   Never failed to start though.

sorrel February 26, 2010 5:45 PM

The first car I drove, then passed my test in and subsequently owned and had for 2 further years was a '72 Datsun Bluebird (510).   Was a great, easy car to drive and for a 17 year old in '77, quite a cool car!  :)   Funnily enough, these have quite a cult following in the US now and are seen as very early day BMW 3 series type cars with bags of tuning potential!  LOL!  

Dave Ryan February 26, 2010 6:50 PM

My first drive was behind the wheel of a dual-control Audi A2 on part of the Oulton Park circuit on a course very similar to the Seat Young Driver programme (the only difference being it was on a racetrack and not in a car park). I can't have been much older than 13 when I did it, yet contrary to the concerns of the Police Federation or RoSPA I still undertook a full course of driving lessons, completed the Pass Plus course after that and have been driving for 5 years without being involved in an accident. All the Audi taught me was how to actually control a car, which if anything is a help rather than a distraction. It certainly explains why I've been more aware of a car's behaviour compared to a lot of people I know.

Adrian987 February 26, 2010 7:45 PM

1965 Mk1 Cortina (1500 Deluxe!).  Learned basic controls in fields and on farm tracks, and "parking" in gateways.  Road skills were learned on the roads, with mixture of School tuition and gaining experience under parental guidance.  The farm tracks bit has become invaluable experience with todays pot-holed roads...  I think giving 11 - 16 year olds controlled tasters/tuition to be a good idea.

scrap February 26, 2010 8:51 PM

That response from ROSPA is laughable.

Surely people take as many lessons as they need to pass the driving test? If the driving test is inadequate, then tackle that... not this scheme.

I think I was about 8 the first time I got behind the wheel... sat on my dad's lap while he did the pedals and gearchange for me!

theonlydt February 26, 2010 9:55 PM

I think the SEAT idea is pretty decent. As long as you bring your kid up right they will know not to go joyriding and take you car underage etc. Then when they are old enough to learn they'll have had the driving experience from before and will probably apply the same level of respect as they did before (subconciously) - as opposed to be a blase 17 year old.

First car I drove was a white 1989 Austin Metro "Princess". Yeah... Learnt more about car repair, thermostats, chokes, cleaning spark plugs and rust than on any car since. It wasn't bad for a 1.3 though - had as much power as my parents' 1.3 Ka almost ten years later!

40summat February 26, 2010 11:30 PM

15 years old when Mummy and Daddy had taken the 2.5pi out to the local Social Club, leaving Mum's Clubman Estate unguarded..Drove for miles around Peterlee.  Passed my Test first time aged 17.  Self taught I am.  Do I win£5?

theonlydt February 27, 2010 1:47 AM

"Do I win£5?" - Nope.

Now, when I were a lad, we learnt to drive at the age of 5 years old, blindfolded, drunk, driving a Ferrari 340 and all for the price of a cup of tea. We used to drive down 'market every sunday at 120mph, but we were safe in those days, though we were poor. No, because we were poor. Of course in those days when the coppers caught you driving underage, drunk and blindfolded you were cuffed over the ear and everything put down to hi-jinx, not like the left-wing, tree hugging hippy police of today. That being said, when my dad realised I'd driven his Bentley over 600miles one weekend with 19 of my mates in the back he near beat me to death with his belt.

(The above post is in keeping with the up-manship previously displayed in this thread. I was actually 17 when I first drove that lovely Metro on public roads.)

noluddite February 27, 2010 8:03 AM

Eee thats nothing. When i was a lad aye took me old mans reliant robin for a run round t estate. Took a wrongun and ended up on a racing circuit. Won n all.

Slim San February 27, 2010 12:36 PM

How can this not be a good thing ? It's hardly going to encourage more kids to become joyriders just because they can already parallel park.

It allows the young driver to learn the basics ( what happens at the ends of your arms and legs) before having to work out what they are going to have to avoid ( kerbs, pedestrians, traffic islands etc).

There are several other similar schemes starting up now and there's always the Under 17 Car Club  (www.under17-carclub.co.uk)  for the seriously committed.

My first drive was in an uncle's Simca 1100 on common land, I just remember how steep the hill we were using seemed. Then learnt to drive in a brown Hillman Hunter.

Lanciaman February 27, 2010 3:45 PM

Surely it must be safer to learn the basics off the road with no other distractions. Then when you`re 17 and have "proper" lessons on the road, your attention isn`t divided between what`s going on around you and trying to control the car.

I learnt to drive in a 1934 BSA 3-wheeler, No, I`m not quite that old; it was cheap and I could drive it on my own. It died when I tipped it on its side, as 3-wheelers are prone to doing.

Corbs February 27, 2010 5:21 PM

My first car was a relatives Bentley S2 at about 12 (first vehicle was a MF 35 Tractor at 11). I absolutely agree with you 100% and so did my Driving instructor when I was 17, I already knew how to drive, he just needed to teach me roadcraft

As for the so-called experts, I remember as a school kid going to ROSPA, and being 'shown' how to control a skid by this complete dork in the front part of an A40. you have never seen so many shuffles of the hands, absolutely hopeless, I did it much better without removing my hands from the wheel hardly..... He didn't like that !!!!

800,000 miles, 50 different cars later, and only one incident I wasn't able to avoid in 40 years.

theonlydt February 27, 2010 6:46 PM

James - looks like you've pulled! Not sure if your wife will approve of a long-lasting relationship though...

Corbs February 27, 2010 8:21 PM

James, you naughty Boy, and it's gonna be a Gift too. Corrrrrr

James Ruppert February 28, 2010 7:19 PM

For the first time in 26 years I've scored. Glad everyone sees the sense in the scheme though. Can't see a downside at all. Still have a Bangernomics Bible book from last week, so if it is no claimed we can do a guessing game next week.

inthebin March 1, 2010 3:54 AM

Learn in the wet, on deserted country lanes, in a old under-powered bomb.

aleks777 March 12, 2010 11:44 AM

it is good http://google.com

Mondeo Owner March 12, 2010 3:09 PM

Learnt of grandparents farm - meant when I was 17 I could concentrate on road sense not mastering clutch control. Drove to school (with mum alongside) morning of my 17th to get practise in and was lucky enough to practise daily with my parents, though my grandfather was even better as he just fell asleep when accompanying me.

Passed my test after 7 weeks, then began the fun that was being the "accompanying driver" to my fellow 17 yrs as they learnt. Not sure how kids today would manage the joy of jacked up Marinas and Fiats with collapsing driver seats.

Airbags? that was what you called your nattering auntie in those days.

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