Fri
Jul 10 2009

Jaguar XJ in the cold light of day

Matt Saunders
It’s the morning after the night before at Jaguar’s Saatchi Gallery launch for the new XJ. This morning a fresh load of B-list hacks were invited to see the new car in the raw, eight hours after the A-listers who saw it at the glitzy launch party proper last night.

More importantly though, this morning and into the early afternoon, Jaguar’s got two XJs doing laps around London’s city streets. So today, we finally get to see the new XJ in context. Which is when we can all make an informed decision about whether it’s a spudder or not.



For what it’s worth, I think the car’s a very smart design – in both senses of the word. It’s fresh, it’s avant-garde, it’s perfectly proportioned, and you certainly can’t help looking at it. A Quattroporte’s prettier, sure – but, though it takes some getting used to, I’d say this Jag isn’t far behind.

And I can say for definite that it looks nothing like a Citroen C6. From any angle. I love the long and elegant waistline, the long rear overhang and the ‘raptor’s eyes’ headlights. The cabin’s impressive; not so elegant, perhaps, but attractive and brimming with technology.

I love the touchscreen above the centre stack; it can display a DVD movie to the front passenger and the usual system information to the driver at the same time.

Works a bit like one of those old-school holograms that change as you move your head. Very clever.

Disappointments? Well, I can’t sit in the back without my head hitting the headlining, and I’m hardly a giant at 6’3”. The boot still ain’t enormous. I was also a bit dismayed to hear that there will be no ‘R’ version.

The 503bhp supercharged V8 will be called the Supersports instead, and have a more relaxed tourer-type character. I think it’s a shame, even if all I’m mourning is the passing of a badge.

Mike O’Driscoll talked about the new XJ being ‘a tipping point’ for Jaguar. We all know that the company’s had a tough year, like so many, and there’s clearly a lot of hope that this car, alongside a strong XF and XK, can push it back into rude health.

It’s no secret that XJs haven’t sold as well as the German opposition for a decade or so. This one’s got the potential to be the market leader, I’d say. Well done boys.

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About Matt Saunders

Was a news boy, web reporter and general staff dogs body before two stints as Autocar’s features editor. Now holds enviable status as a road tester for the magazine that invented the format, and is developing a hankering for a fast motorbike.

Comments

obamabeach July 10, 2009 5:48 PM

"I can’t sit in the back without my head hitting the headlining, and I’m hardly a giant at 6’3”"

absolutely amazing. this is the real story of this car. balls out on style and they forgot the boring functional bits, like how is it that a car that in 'short' wheelbase which is just shy of 17 feet in length still manages to provide inadequate accommodation for the people this car is intended for, i.e. rear-seated rich people who at least in the US(surely its no.1 target market) are often the other side of 6' in height. is Jaguar mad? according to other reports the SWB is not adequate for generous leg-room in the rear(along with the problem of headroom) and is only really adequate in the long wheelbase version, which measures a staggering 17' 3". If this was deliberate intention by Jaguar it was folly, if it was an oversight they should be shot for criminal waste of resources and failure to meet the core demands of this class of vehicle's customers, its complete raison d'etre.

deepheatthemovie July 10, 2009 6:00 PM

shut up.

Howey July 10, 2009 6:22 PM

the bonnet looks a to short from the side profile

picture but a round of applause for making this

XJ such a bold departure from every XJ that has gone before it.

i look forward to seeing it in the metal

roadtester July 10, 2009 7:17 PM

Horse asks "is Jaguar mad?"

Talk about pots and kettles!

superstevie July 10, 2009 7:19 PM

@deepheatthemovie

Great contructive comment! And i genuinly mean that!

I get the feeling that this car will be driven by its owners in far higher a number than the germans

jackjflash July 10, 2009 7:24 PM

It’s a handsome machine sure to cut into the German luxury car sales. It is an elegant car inside and out and without being sterile and cold like the German marques it competes against; well done indeed.

obamabeach July 10, 2009 7:41 PM

"I get the feeling that this car will be driven by its owners in far higher a number than the germans"

- they'll have to you dolt because they won't be able to fit in the back. whoever heard of a seventeen foot 2+2? boy those boys at Jag are smart at sussing out new niches.

@deepheatthemovie, excellent retort, rebutting the factual point. are you classified as merely 'special needs' or straight cretin?

Dan McNeil July 10, 2009 7:53 PM

"If this was deliberate intention by Jaguar it was folly, if it was an oversight they should be shot for criminal waste of resources and failure"

(horseandcarp)

I thought the Germans had given up on shooting people for failure.

Dan McNeil July 10, 2009 7:56 PM

"@deepheatthemovie, excellent retort, rebutting the factual point. are you classified as merely 'special needs' or straight cretin?

(horseandcart)

Have you recovered from your self-induced coronary over on the Czech Scrappage Scheme Vetoed thread?

jackjflash July 10, 2009 8:10 PM

I was watching a German documentary the other day called “Wütend Kugeln” it was about the search for Hitler’s missing testicle. Apparently this German institute will pay a finder’s fee if anyone can shed some light on the whereabouts of the missing German nut…

obamabeach July 10, 2009 9:20 PM

poor jack dog, someone upset you? was it cos you were too stupid to know that the nasty Krauts have effectively taken control of your beloved 'American' champ Tesla? poor mut, perhaps it would be humane to put you down - and save us all from your lame, ignorant 'contributions'.

PS mutley, if Tesla was so fantastic how come it needs half a billion US taxdollars to build a lousy factory? face it mut your auto industry is communist 5-year 'great leap forward' ***. GM stands for Government Motors, no. best you bugger off now and start learning Cantonese for your new masters and learn some humility.

jer July 10, 2009 9:23 PM

I'm also 6 3" but can't afford it an if I could I'd sit in the front. Are you serious the boot is not that big it look as big as a 500. Overall tho' I think they went for it and made it progressive and distinctive.

jackjflash July 10, 2009 9:42 PM

…they thought the rampant gland may have fled to South America, but word has it that the German nut sometimes post on auto blogs under numerous ever changing screen names…

Mini1 July 10, 2009 9:49 PM

He almost appears as if he's saying that the Citroen C6 is a bad looking car! I don't think that anyone can deny the resemblance of the rear lights and how they sit on the car, to say "it looks nothing like a C6" is surely debating the obvious. Anyhow, I think both cars look brilliant.

CambsBill July 10, 2009 9:53 PM

Poor old Beach, he's desperate to find anything he possibly can to criticise about the XJ.  He must even mix with different company to the rest of us mortals - even in the States I can't say I've noticed a correlation between height & wealth.

I have the now-obsolete XJ which I love and there's not a cat in hell's chance I'd let someone else drive so long as I was sober!  The driving experience I find vastly better than the Germans I tried at the same same, whether wafting around (they can't) or chucking it round country lanes.  Better start saving the pennies again for this one in a couple of years.

CambsBill July 10, 2009 10:02 PM

"whoever heard of a seventeen foot 2+2".  I have, it's the CLS Merc, and my kids didn't have enough headroom in the back of that!  Shame really, because of the whole range, that's about the only one I do like the styling of, the rest all being, at best, variations on a theme

pdmc July 10, 2009 10:19 PM

"- they'll have to you dolt because they won't be able to fit in the back. whoever heard of a seventeen foot 2+2? boy those boys at Jag are smart at sussing out new niches."

A couple of things I need to say.

If its headroom you want, buy a BMW PAS (Pretentious Automotive Sunroom?) 5 Series GT 'thing'. I'm sure you'd feel very suave riding around in something as sleek as that. They even paint them in some class of 'metallic tupperware beige.' Or better still, get a BMW X6... the low suv... which is about as revolutionary and clever as the Ford Fusion was for being a 'Tall Small Car.'

If Germany's biggest contribution to mainstream car design during 2009 so far has been to cack-handedly graft a 5th door onto the arse-end of the new 5 Series / A5 models (over 44 years after Renault first pioneered the idea) and then to have the cheek to call the fat, ungainly, unoriginal and heavy handed result a 'GT'' or  'Coupe' (when they are both nothing more than tarted up, late to the party, 'hatchbacks') I'm quite certain Jaguar can build a 17ft long super saloon with the interior accommodation of a 2+2 if they so wish.

Only, I do think this car is so much more than that, don't you?

Oh and while I'm here... an all aluminium luxury saloon that weighs less than all of its rivals and therefore must surely be more efficient... "...a criminal waste of resources..."???

jackjflash July 10, 2009 10:26 PM

...if anyone spots this gland, please call the authorities, do not…I repeat do not try to capture it yourself. It is jacked up on baseless nationalistic fervor and could harm you or invade your country. If for some reason you cannot contact the authorities it is best to just let it be and hope it leaves…

And now for something completely different…

The car is beautiful, are there some things that could have been different, maybe. All cars compromise in certain areas, the b pillar for instance is catching hell, but it has to be there for structural integrity and they hid it the best they could and to me it doesn’t detract from the design. As far as the headroom in the rear passenger area goes it is more than adequate for most people, hell 6’ 3” is pretty tall so I think the duesseldwarf is wrong on that account too.

Le Chef July 10, 2009 10:46 PM

I'm glad that Jaguar had the balls not to copy the Germans - it's nice to see a design that's fresh and original. Jaguar would have done plenty of clinics to determine quartile fit. It's a trade-off as to how many people will fit comfortably or not. When you get above 6' 1" and people who can afford to buy cars like the XK you're looking at tiny %'s that become irrelevant. So if you're above 6' 1" and earn in the top 15% of earners, buy a second car or sit in the front.

obamabeach July 10, 2009 11:11 PM

CambsBill,

no correlation between height and wealth? even the most cursory search of a search engine brings up postive correlations between height and intelligence:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Height_and_intelligence

from the above I take it you're a dwarf.

i'm sure I don't need to spell out there's a postive correlation between IQ and wealth, before you get smart.

there's plenty of data out there showing CEOs and equivalents are of above average height for the general population  - obviously something that the design god Callum appears to have overlooked.

even if this increasingly-apparent white elephant hadn't been intended for the US market predominantly(Jay Leno launching it etc) other, more successful nations have overtaken US average male height or quickly approaching it: the wealthy Dutch nation have the tallest people and Chinese males are putting on inches almost visibly - tallest NBA player, Chinese?

Bill, the CLS Merc is a class below, based on the E-class as you know. it is not 17', 16 at a push but not 17', okay? anyways if a Merc customer wants a headroom restrained style statement he can choose the CLS, if he wants optimal rear accommodation he can choose a standard wheelbase S-class; if he wants to be a potentate, the long wheelbase. see, that's how product planning and market segments work, something that seems alien to the bods at Whitley.

TStag July 10, 2009 11:15 PM

All those that criticise this car should tell us what the alternatives are? I mean seriously, what are they? The S class is like Elvis but past his best and on a diet of hamburgers. The 7 Series is dull and also too heavy. The only one i like is the Audi, but then I'd rather have this!

obamabeach July 10, 2009 11:19 PM

pdmc,

the alloy XJ lighter? want to bet? makers' figures:

Jag XJ 3 litre diesel SWB 1,800kg

BMW 730d 1,940kg

BMW states 'empty' weights with driver(68kg), 7kg of luggage and a 90% full fuel tank included. now if Jag's weight is on the same basis, then okay it would appear t0 have a ~150kg weight advantage due to its aluminium body, but if that figure is bare empty weight then there's feck all in it, as driver plus luggage plus 90% fuel tank in a 730d is about 140kg. Capiche?

roadtester July 10, 2009 11:22 PM

@obamashorsesmissinggonad

Just go and play with your two inches.

roadtester July 10, 2009 11:24 PM

@hitlersmissingbonkersbollock

I explained the weight thing above.

You're wrong.

roadtester July 10, 2009 11:26 PM

@hitlersgooglinggoolie

Correction - I clarified the weight thing in the other thread.

You're wrong.

obamabeach July 10, 2009 11:48 PM

roadtester, you seem to have balls on the brain. you been round McNeil's again?

as to your 'you're wrong' infantile footstomp, go look at Jaguar's website and see what it says for the XJ's weight. why do you clowns persist with such muppetry? it's bad enough Autocar pumping out bilge on this product, like it's repeated factual 'inaccuracy' over the XJ having class-leading drag coefficient, they're hired hacks, having to suck corporate ****, that or work for a living. let's leave the 'spin' to them, eh.

regards the featherweightness of the XJ or otherwise the only matter in question is whether Jag uses the same EU guideline for stating vehicle weight as most other makers, i.e. is the 1,800kg of the 3 litre SWB diesel the bare weight or the driver plus fuel weight. if you have a defintive answer then let's hear it, if not, kindly f*ck off.

roadtester July 10, 2009 11:56 PM

@hitlersbouncingbollock

Read the other thread.

The quoted weights for the XJ are 'EU kerb weight'

The lightest XJ is the 5.0 petrol normally aspirated at 1755kg.

But you're comparison with the new 7 is irrelevant anyway.

Because the 7 is sh*t and the XF is brilliant.

Dan McNeil July 11, 2009 12:07 AM

hello horseandcart.

do you seriously think that jag's weight and other technical specs fall foul of eu regs (silly question:  of course you do, because you're insane).  irrespective of that, and model for model, the xj does indeed weigh less than your favoured panzerwagen.

now then, please continue to entertain us by making another clunkingly idiotic claim, so that we can demolish it.

Dan McNeil July 11, 2009 12:13 AM

"obamabeach July 10, 2009 11:11 PM

CambsBill,

no correlation between height and wealth? even the most cursory search of a search engine brings up postive correlations between height and intelligence:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Height_and_intelligence

from the above I take it you're a dwarf."

------------------

Thank you for your insight, Dr Megele.

roadtester July 11, 2009 12:59 AM

Phew.

All quiet again.

Looks like thetediousteutonictesticle has taken himmself off to bed!

Dan McNeil July 11, 2009 1:24 AM

Probably sleeps in his panzer.

Difficult to assess purely from text, but he exhibits many of the traits of  antisocial personality disorder.  

roadtester July 11, 2009 7:55 AM

It's all too much for him.

The beautiful Anglo-Indian Jag sweeping all before it!

BulletTrainMcKane July 11, 2009 8:08 AM

I would like to see a picture of it in the rain.

CambsBill July 11, 2009 8:37 AM

"obamabeach July 10, 2009 11:11 PM

CambsBill,

no correlation between height and wealth? even the most cursory search of a search engine brings up postive correlations between height and intelligence:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Height_and_intelligence

from the above I take it you're a dwarf."

Thanks for the insight ObamaOneKanobe, shame you didn't read your own link - clearly refers to a correlation in adolescence, which diminishes with age.  Adolescents probably not Jag's target market for the XJ methinks, though they must be kicking themselves for not spotting the sales opportunities to Chinese basketball players.

The CLS - it's the only Merc on my radar that appealed because it's al least got a bit of individuality about it, and it being in the same price bracket definitely makes it a comparator.  Thanks for reminding me though that it's just an overpriced E class with a reskin.

Weights - I can't be a****d to look, but if the 7's like the Mercs then the kerb weight will be a bit higher once you've bought all the options to bring it up to the same spec as the Jag.  Another thing that infuriated me about the CLS was that, in this price bracket, Bluetooth was still a £250 option!

papagomp July 11, 2009 8:42 AM

looking at the film of the car around London, suddenly that rear is not so aukward. It looks as though the width of the car is far better than the original photos showed, and on the move it looks far better. The rear dark panel on the c pillar works from some angles but not all, a condition made all the more difficult by the chrome sorround on the side dlo. But it looks much better on the road, moving, which is after all the best context to judge it in. I love the interior, so much warmer and more characterful than the Germanic norm, love the virtual dials, the air vents, and the general architecture of it all. Overall this has the feeling of being something rather special, will be very interesting to see it in the flesh.

papagomp July 11, 2009 8:42 AM

looking at the film of the car around London, suddenly that rear is not so aukward. It looks as though the width of the car is far better than the original photos showed, and on the move it looks far better. The rear dark panel on the c pillar works from some angles but not all, a condition made all the more difficult by the chrome sorround on the side dlo. But it looks much better on the road, moving, which is after all the best context to judge it in. I love the interior, so much warmer and more characterful than the Germanic norm, love the virtual dials, the air vents, and the general architecture of it all. Overall this has the feeling of being something rather special, will be very interesting to see it in the flesh.

North July 11, 2009 9:18 AM

.......for the headroom compare it to its rvials.....ultimately it will be judged on what each individual wants against its competition........like all things and thus the sales will tell the story.

As for Tesla, all start ups need money for factories etc.....its a fact of life and how they get going, whether that comes of the gov. or venture capital, banks etc....you need start up money; well done Tesla!!....I think Tesla are absolutely brilliant; Merc own 10% of Tesla (good on Merc and good for Tesla)....I think Merc and Tesla are absolutely brilliant....I think Tesla is run by a savvy team as is Merc....good on them and well done to both!!!

Ps; the XJ (photograph or not) is clearly reminding people of a C6.....I am with the other person....I really like the C6 design....so even if it looked a bit more like it I would not mind at all...

PPs; this XJ is a good looking car, the back took me a while to get used too.....but its good....I like the design of the car...the deisgn works well!! well done Jag.

CambsBill July 11, 2009 9:26 AM

Has anyone seen any pics from the back seat looking upwards yet - I'm intrigued as to how the glass roof/blinds has been executed

Air Cooled July 11, 2009 9:34 AM

if only the rear did not look like a lancia, the car would have been absolutely brilliant in every way! nevertheless, it looks good.

obamabeach July 11, 2009 9:38 AM

"Has anyone seen any pics from the back seat looking upwards yet"

nope. Jag's press office still hasn't found a  photographer that short. they're trying to track down a guy by the name of H.Houdini.

roadtester July 11, 2009 10:07 AM

@randomrantinggermanbollock.

The glass roof is standard.

Glass is heavy, which makes the XJ's lightness all the more impressive.

You were wrong about the weight and wrong abiut the rear space.

The rear is in fact, and also subjectively very spcious.

obamabeach July 11, 2009 11:07 AM

roadbollox, I can see why you think this is 'brilliant' and no doubt wish to conjoin with it physically, you're such a match. the touch you betray in your responses are as light and delicate as this lumbering, heavyhanded carbuncle. stick to writing motoring reviews for the Slough Advertiser, at least that's useful for chip paper.

obamabeach July 11, 2009 11:11 AM

apologies, is as light, not 'are as light...'

don't want roadkill and his posse of prats after me for not speaking the Queen's English. or should that be queens' English in Autocar forums?

roadtester July 11, 2009 11:40 AM

@teutonicbollockontherun

You were completely wrong about the weight, weren't you?

roadtester July 11, 2009 11:45 AM

@bollockburger

PS - say what you like about the Slough Advertiser but it was my entree to the unveil, so unlike you I have actually seen the XJ and and sat in it. So there.

Jaydub July 11, 2009 11:58 AM

I have to say that after seeing these winding around Warwick for a number of months the launch pics do the XJ justice, its a great design IMO and has the argument enticing style that is so missing from the usual Kraut boredomwagons.

Incidentally seeing the destruction of our german friend's, (ahem...) arguments has made this the most entertaining thread I have read on here please don't stop.

obamabeach July 11, 2009 12:27 PM

jaydub, you on drugs? if you're not you really ought  to be. do you work for ECB and put our PRs saying the Aussies are being smashed? in other words are you a d!ckhead fantasist?

to recap:

Autocar/Jaguar PR Team(two cheeks of the same ar$e):

XJ has best drag co-efficient in class(0.29). that'll be news to Mercedes-Benz who state the S-class's Cd at 0.26. perhaps the air at Whitley is less viscous than at Stuttgart. who the f*ck cares with such congenital spinners and liars.

'the XJ does not have a problem with restricted rear seat headroom and legroom in comparison to its competitors':

the 6'3" blog writer begs to differ and Georg Kacher(European Ed. CAR Magazine) says:

'The interior is very strong. Are these the world’s prettiest door panels or what? Slabs of wood, leather, chrome – I love it. The packaging however is very poor. Not enough room behind the steering wheel, not enough room in the rear unless you go LWB. What were they thinking?

'Lightweight XJ'?

I've already pointed out that the stated weights of the 3 litre diesel SWB to its likeliest UK competitor, the BMW 730d, is only 140kg, 1,800kg v 1,940. hardly earthshattering for such hype. But BMW states kerbweight to latest EU guidelines, including 75kg driver weight. Jaguar does not state the basis of the 1,800kg figure. It could be unladen, without driver, so the difference could fall to 65kg.

Jag's US website gives the supercharged V8 version at 4,300 pounds unladen curbweight. BMW N.America on its website gives the competitor 750i as 4550 pounds. Now again, if BMW NA are using read-across European weights for its NA market stated weights this figure is likely to include a 75kg/165lb driver, which brings the difference down to about 85lb. this is not the weight advantage it is being made out to be. either refute that with official data or shut the f*ck up.

roadtester July 11, 2009 12:32 PM

@testicle

How many times.

The Jag figures are EU kerb weight.

As has been pointed out the XJ also has far more standard kit.

As usual you haven't a clue.

A R Chen July 11, 2009 1:53 PM

Kudos to Jag for a brave, individually styled cabin.  I like the front end of this XJ - thoroughbred Jag.  Great job on keeping the weight down too.  But the rear quarters look pretty dumpy especially noticeable in silver, and that C or D pillar black section is something I would never ever have expected from Jaguar.

I happen to be 6ft 3in tall as well, and I do use a chauffeur.  Looks like Jag doesn't really cater for anyone over 6 foot??

Citytiger July 11, 2009 2:45 PM

Why are the panel gaps so big? They would seriously look out of place on a 1970's Jag never mind a brand new one

manicm July 11, 2009 3:32 PM

Would all of you stop it already, you're worse than kids. Obamabeach - for the record the interior pics here at Autocar show the new Jag to have impressive legroom - if it's the SWB shown - so let's not rant and rave until we've actually seen it.

It's certainly not instantly pretty but it looks light years ahead of anything else on the road today - including the interior.

It makes the 7 look like a Toyota.

theop July 11, 2009 5:44 PM

the last nice bmw 7 series was stopped being made in 2002.

The new Jag looks gorgeous, as good as the Maserati, but will surely be better made. Masers suck unfortunately in daily life. I had one and I know many people who have run quatroporters... Not many are happy in the long run...

The CLS is a gd car too but destined for posh minicabing eventually (in london its already becoming part of fleets).

SirSidneyRuffdiamond July 11, 2009 10:11 PM

I have been beside myself waiting for the launch of the new XJ for a fortnight and generally find it highly impressive and daring.  Hats off to the boys from Coventry, a town which was of course so horribly and wantonly bombed by the Luftwaffe in WW2 by the aggressive, bombastic, arrogant and unpleasant Krauts, some of whom were good engineers but sadly nonetheless a bunch of #@*$+.

I admit to be shocked and somewhat disappointed at the rear of the car at first sight but will be patient as such an 'icon reimagined' deserves time, and most of all it deserves to be seen in the flesh a good few times before one passes judgement. Sufficient space in the back of a limousine for heads and legs is not too much to ask and Jaguar has in the past fallen short in this regard, but I am over 6 feet tall and can sit comfortably in the back of an XF, so I would imagine it will be the same in the new XJ.

I have great respect for the engineering prowess of the German car makers and they have made many fine cars over the years. But as all Jaguar enthusiasts, not to mention owner-drivers, will point out, some cars aim for something a little higher, a little more ethereal. It's difficult to describe it but it is more of a feeling. I think this is why so many people love Jaguar and wish so fervently that it thrives and secures for itself a successful future, which certainly does not require the ritual slaughter of its worthy German automative competitors!

Sid

PS:

Dear ObamaBeach,

I just wonder why it is that you are so addicted to a car magazine, Autocar, that you clearly loathe and have no respect for, and why it is that you spend so much of your life blogging about something you hate. In fact hate and vitreol appear to be the only things you are capable of, which is a shame as I am sure that you, like anyone else, have some positive attributes. If only you could nurture these you might find that there are other things in life that bring pleasure other than simply being a horse's arse ... so may I respectfully suggest that you seriously consider some form of psychotherapy.

ordinary bloke July 11, 2009 10:44 PM

Can someone please shut up this crank, Obamabeach. Perhaps the moderator of these forums can delete any of his posts that are abusive of other contributors: that would take care of most of them. His posts add nothing to the general discussion and are also largely factually wrong, it seems to me, as well as spoiling the forums for those wanting to make sensible reasonable commets. The best way to make him go away would probably be to just not reply to his posts and ignore him totally.

Le Chef July 11, 2009 11:30 PM

I guess Obamabeach would easily fit in the back of the Jag - cretins tend to be pretty short.

Dan McNeil July 11, 2009 11:40 PM

"Le Chef July 11, 2009 11:30 PM

I guess Obamabeach would easily fit in the back of the Jag - cretins tend to be pretty short.

---------

The boot, even?

Le Chef July 12, 2009 12:13 AM

Glove box

Dan McNeil July 12, 2009 12:28 AM

Only if he was sawed in half.

Engelbert July 12, 2009 8:07 AM

At last Jaguar breaks out of the pipe and slippers mould.

I've only seen pictures of the car and expect it will look better in the aluminium.

Personally, I like the rear end better than the front.

But I look forward to feeling the handling and the motors - especially the diesel.

obamabeach July 12, 2009 11:13 AM

Dan McNeil July 12, 2009 12:28 AM

Only if he was sawed in half.

- sawn in half.

*snigger*, nice one tailgunner!

obamabeach July 12, 2009 11:14 AM

@sir sidney what's your face,

you a tailgunner too?

roadtester July 12, 2009 12:16 PM

@testicle

Don't change the subject. You were wrong about the weight - as you invariably are about everything else.

Dan McNeil July 12, 2009 12:34 PM

"obamabeach July 12, 2009 11:13 AM

Dan McNeil July 12, 2009 12:28 AM

Only if he was sawed in half.

- sawn in half.

*snigger*, nice one tailgunner!"

---------

as usual, the laugh is on you - either usage is correct.   you just can't get things right, can you?

deepheatthemovie July 12, 2009 5:03 PM

@ the knackered old Horse

"excellent retort, rebutting the factual point. are you classified as merely 'special needs' or straight cretin?"

Ouch- that must have taken some doing. I'm really hurt now. I doubt that you wouldn't know a factual point if it pearced through your frenulum (assuming you have one). So my original comment stands.

Shut up.

obamabeach July 12, 2009 5:39 PM

'I doubt that you wouldn't know a factual point if it pearced through your frenulum (assuming you have one).'

maybe not deepthroat, not being all sophisticated and stuff wot like you is, but I can spell pierced. re. frenulum is that why you're a bellend?

keep it coming ladies. you send down them dollies and like the Aussies we'll keep smashing them over the boundary.

how did wunderkid Hamilton get on at the German GP?

now a telling snippet from outside loco UK on Jag and English delusions:

'Why are Jaguar Land Rover not shipping all their manufacturing equipment to India. All Land Rovers should be made in India this is the only way for this company to survive.

We need to help poor countries get richer

nigel, romford, uk

That why it should stay in the UK, Nigel

peter, apeldoorn, netherlands'

(looks like dear Nigel is another frenulum - probably something big in the City - rentboy?)

comments from 'Jaguar poised to shut for the summer' Times Online

business.timesonline.co.uk/.../article6690388.ece

obamabeach July 12, 2009 5:44 PM

deepthroat love, 'I doubt that you wouldn't know a factual point' is a double negative. now look mate i ain't got all day to be teaching you pommie bastards how to speak your own tongue, the queens' English. i was right though, defo 'special needs '.

trocadero July 12, 2009 5:50 PM

oh dear, oh dear, all these personal insults.........

of course "Obama Beach" was originally a mistake made by our unflappable and superbly competent ;-) unelected Prime Minister Gordon Brown.

On that basis, probably best overlooked, ignored in future  and  left forgotten.

obamabeach July 12, 2009 5:51 PM

just for you tailgunner:

'MAN SAWN IN TWO

PERTH, Thursday.

A horrible accident, in which a man named August Magussen lost his life, occurred in a timber mill at Worsley. Magussen was crossing a connecting rod by which a movable saw is worked, when he was struck in the middle of the body by the whirling saw, and was practically sawn in two.'

150.theage.com.au/view_bestofarticle.asp

damn, those convict colonials could never write proper wot like theirs betters in the Mother Country.

Give it up Tailgunner, your d!ckheadness is only exceeded by your total lack of self-awareness.

roadtester July 12, 2009 6:05 PM

@testicle

Stop changing the subject.

Go on, admit it.

You were wrong about the weight.

SirSidneyRuffdiamond July 12, 2009 7:33 PM

Dear Obamabeach

You seem to have gone silent. I shall not pontificate as to the reasons why. What I would like to ask instead is what cars you rate highly, given that you have decided that the new XJ is no good.  I would be interested to know which models and your reasons; perhaps briefly touch upon positive and negative attributes as you see it ...

Dan McNeil July 12, 2009 8:11 PM

Don't be too hard on him, people.

I've suspected for some time now that poor old horse/obama has ASPD (Antisocial Personality Disorder). There are several degrees of ASPD, ranging from the kind of behaviour witnessed here, to extreme psychopathy. Although treatment for the "lesser" ASPDs are available, the evidence shows that they are not particularly successful. Recidivism following treatment is therefore common.

On internet chatrooms and such as this, ASPD types will typically reach a tipping point of rage (usually caused by their inability to engage with others) before disappearing, only to then re-appear under another name at some future point. Thus, the cycle is repeated.

Unless a service provider (such as Autocar) follows a vigilant, determined and consistent approach, the exclusion of such personality types from internet chatrooms is rarely successful in anything more than the medium term.

In short, we're probably stuck with him.

roadtester July 12, 2009 10:01 PM

Excellent analysis Dan. Perhaps Autocar can trace his IP address and make sure the men in white coats get to him before things get completely out of hand.

In the meantime, I savour the delicious irony of testicle lecturing others on the subject of self-awareness; while it is impossible to be certain, could it be that he displays that particularly virulent form of homophobia that is often adopted as a defence mechanism by those who are unable to confront their own repressed leanings in that direction?

And he's still wrong about the XJ's weight.

Le Chef July 12, 2009 11:13 PM

I like old "Beatmybushonabeach" He's a complete comedy act with every post. Let him keep posting ridiculous statements with no factual basis. Let him continue to make an idiot of himself. It's a great sport, and very sporting of him to take on the role of the donkey on this magazine's fora.

obamabeach July 12, 2009 11:50 PM

'And he's still wrong about the XJ's weight.'

roadbollox, mea culpa. like the XJ you're truly a lightweight.

regards my diagnosed personality disorder, don't worry roadbollox, you've nothing to fear on that score, as you have no personality to be disordered or ordered in the first place and that's why you'll always be the crushingly tedious little man you know yourself to be.

now take your mutual appreciation, love-in with McPrius, the uphill garderner, somewhere else. get a room.

roadtester July 13, 2009 12:00 AM

Hmm testicle - you really do have a most unusual obsession with homosexuality, don't you?

I think you need to cool down, take a few days off from these forums and take a very close look at who and what you really are.

Dan McNeil July 13, 2009 12:03 AM

horseandobama:

"now take your mutual appreciation, love-in with McPrius, the uphill garderner, somewhere else. get a room."

--------------

Its 'gardener'.

obamabeach July 13, 2009 12:11 AM

McPrius, the uphill garderner

yeah, sorry about that fella, I spelt that a bit queer.

night night now, sleep tight and don't let roadbollox bite.

roadtester July 13, 2009 12:17 AM

@testicle

Go on, take my advice, have a good think about it. Confront it, be true to yourself. You know what they say - better out than in. You'll be happier in the long run - perhaps some of that anger and frustration that drives what I might loosely call your contributions to these forums will dissipate as well.

Fred Dagg July 13, 2009 1:21 AM

I've skimmed through some of this as it was reasonably amusing.

I've come to the conclusion that our fellow poster obamabeach must be a 13 year old 'billy no mates'. No sane adult could possibly keep this up and keep coming back for more.

I did wonder when horseandcart would reappear, however I don't understand what these agro types get out of it. This is a place for like minded car enthusiasts to discuss cars, not tear strips out of eachother.

For what its worth I reckon the XJ looks quite neat in the photos. It looks like a Jag without being retro,

obamabeach July 13, 2009 8:22 AM

seen this?:

www.timesonline.co.uk/.../article6682777.ece

no, not the shill piece by media whore Jay 'Jag-wah' Leno, the comments below.

many are from the US, XJ's numero uno target market; don't look good, do it?

apparently, something i hadn't appreciated, overwhelmingly it is ladies who go in for XJs in the States; men buy Bimmers, Mercs and Audis. now i understand why there are so many admirers of the XJ on Autocar's forums. have a nice day ladies.

roadtester July 13, 2009 9:34 AM

@testicle

I wondered where you'd been. You've obviously been busy posting under your multiple personalities/identities over on the Times site instead.

You're not only an anglophobe and a hompohobe (we all know what that means) but a misogynist as well.

Men may buy BMWs, Mercs and Audis, and women may buy Jags. But I somehow suspect that our inbetweeny homophobe horse buys a bus ticket.

disco.stu July 13, 2009 9:48 AM

Without having seen it in the metal, i am not too sure about the exterior styling.  The interior styling i quite like.

But i am glad that Jaguar had the courage to be daring and come up with something so distinctive and different - it is the only way they will survive.  

If they continued to produce caricatures of the original XJ they would die.  If they produced a photocopy of an Audi/BMW/Mercedes they would equally die.  So not only is their chosen course a breath of fresh air in the luxo limo market, but it is also the only possible way forward if they want to still be around next decade.

CambsBill July 13, 2009 11:40 AM

Don't get rid of him, he's fun!  Every village needs it's idiot.

Like SirSid, though, I would like to know what cars he thinks are good, or what he drives himself (if he's got his licence yet).

superstevie July 13, 2009 12:10 PM

having only read half this thread, its clear to me that obamabeach or whatever his user name is of the day is a complete t*t. Being argumentative, rude and insulting does not make him fun. Seems he has a large chip on his shoulder about something and has to vent his anger on forums like this

Le Chef July 13, 2009 4:47 PM

The U.S market will love this car. It represents a clear point of difference from the boring set of Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Lexus 600, Mercedes S-Class. And if you;re an Alpha Male over 6' and have the earning power to own one, you will sit in the left-hand front seat, not in the back - that's what Lincoln Town Cars are for.

Fred Dagg July 13, 2009 8:24 PM

"have a nice day ladies."

More rantings from the school yard...

SirSidneyRuffdiamond July 14, 2009 1:48 AM

Calling ObummerBeach,

Calling ObummerBeach,

Come on sunshine. You appear to be completely devoid of any opinion yourself. I don't mean just immaturely slagging off others. Any fool can do that. I mean voicing your own, measured opinion. You can surely manage that can't you? Or don't you have one of your own? In which case why do you hold forth so much under different pseudonyms on blogs like this but only ever in an entirely negative and antagonistic manner?

Let me give you an example:

'I don't like Jaguar/Autocar/women ... because ... I am an Autralian closet homosexual' for instance.

Or perhaps:

'My favourite car is a Holden Kingswood/Ford Falcon'.  Possibly 'I would choose to drive a Merc/BMW?Audi', or even 'Cadillac/Lincoln' ...

Except you needn't stop there, give us your reasons. For instance: '...because I like the shape/interior' etc.

It could be a whole new experience for you. Instead of just hating things for no reason, you might find you like something. You might even discover you know why that is and, given time, learn how to express yourself in a positive way rather than having to find something/one to denegrate. It really could be the making of you, so why don't you try it. Here, I'll make it easier for you if you are struggling. Complete this sentence:- 'My favourite car is a  ........... because ............'.

Good luck.

SirSidneyRuffdiamond July 14, 2009 12:32 PM

Good news for Jaguar fans ...

The company, along with Buick, has overtaken Lexus in the USA to take the No.1 spot in the 2009 JD Power Dependability Survey.  Autoblog is a popular American auto website:

www.autoblog.com/.../jaguar-and-buick-upset-lexus-in-j-d-power-2009-vehicle-dependab

I quote:-

'BUICK, JAGUAR KNOCK LEXUS FROM TOP OF J.D. POWER 2009 VEHICLE DEPENDABILITY STUDY'

by Michael Harley on Mar 19th 2009 at 7:00AM  

"J.D. Power has released its 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study results and it’s a bombshell.  For the past 14 years...Lexus has sat at the top of the chart...this year, Buick and Jaguar have tied for top ranking".

The 2009 Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from more than 46,000 original owners of 2006 model-year vehicles. The study was fielded in October 2008".

• Jaguar=equal 1st (with Buick)

• Porsche=11th

• Audi=12th

• BMW=17th

• Mercedes-Benz=20th

You can also read about this pretty remarkable turnaround in Jaguar's dependability record, which has clearly been work-in-progress for some years, on the following New York Times website:-

wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/.../jaguar-the-most-dependable-car-really

'JAGUAR: THE MOST DEPENDABLE CAR...REALLY'

By Cheryl Jensen.    March 19, 2009, 7:01 am

Also from Autoblog:-

'2010 Jaguar XJ: We get hands-on with Coventry's new big cat'  by Chris Paukert on Jul 9th 2009 at 3:15PM

www.autoblog.com/.../2010-jaguar-xj-we-get-hands-on-with-coventrys-new-big-cat

(This is an excellent and thorough review, as far as possible at this early stage anyway. Generally extremely positive)

WHY QUOTE THESE RESULTS?

I quote the current, bang-up-to-date, 2009 JD Power Dependability Survey results because The Times Online are currently redesigning their Comments section online and the last posted entry on their Jaguar blog quotes the following, which having done a bit of research I can confirm are 3 years out of date:-

J.D. Power ===2006=== Vehicle Dependability Study

1. Lexus (Toyota), Score: 136

2. Mercury (Ford), Score: 151

3. Buick (GM), Score: 153

4. Cadillac (GM), Score: 163

5. Toyota, Score: 179

6. Acura (Honda), Score: 184

7. Honda, Score: 194

8. Jaguar Score 210

9. BMW Score 212 aver. score 227

Andy, Sacramento, California

---------------------------------------

Jaguar must fight its corner out there in the real world but I don't see why it should have to put up with misinformation, intentional or not. And if it has to suck up all the criticism from past weaknesses -as it has had to- then it is surely entitled to a fair crack of the whip when it excels -as apparently it is now doing.

We British are often slow to get going. But look out when we do. Weren't Spitfires manufactured in the Jaguar factory during WW2?

Nothing is written and who knows how it will all turn out, but Jaguar has finally come out fighting.  God speed chaps. Keep it up!

ESB July 15, 2009 12:04 AM

@Obamabeach, I think you're taking it all a bit far. Conduct on this site is usually quite gentlemanly.

PRODIGY July 15, 2009 6:29 AM

I  must say, Obamabeach and his idiotic comments have made me chuckle at work this morning. Haven't been on this site for a while, but may well frequent this blog now!

Viva la prat!

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