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carup008 July 1, 2009 4:09 PM

err...I would think he meant that both represent the sporting brands in the larger Chrysler and Fiat families respectively. Otherwise, Dodge and Alfa cars are (obviously) completely different!

kerrecoe July 1, 2009 4:16 PM

Sorry Mark, but really, this kind of sensationalist claptrap really gets hard to swallow sometimes. Do you actually believe that Sergio will be sneaking Nitro's into the Alfa range? Do you not imagine that he is, instead, referring to future plans to jointly develop a range that can wear either badge?

jonfortwo July 1, 2009 4:36 PM

The cultural differences between not only Alfa and Dodge but the US and europe are just too wide for this to succeed.

This new combine have already stated that they will be using existing hardware to get product to market quickly and this will lead to inevitable compromise.

Alfa`s are designed to go around corners, America does not have any.

Mark Tisshaw July 1, 2009 4:42 PM

Kerrecoe, the Alfa Romeo Nitro comment was a bit tongue in cheek, and no, I image the car ever being made.

Sergio says he see's the two brands as European and American counterparts, sharing many similar traits. I just can't see any myself.

Something so explicitly European is not going to mix well with something so explicitly American. Future platform sharing for the two brands is going to happen, but I don't think it's going to be a wise move.

Maybe a large Alfa/Chrysler saloon may work, but when Dodge is only really known for 4x4s and out and out muscle cars, suddenly mixing in Alfa styling and driving characteristics may not be a wise move.

kerrecoe July 1, 2009 4:57 PM

Maybe that's the point Mark? Maybe the Dodge brand has so little substance behind it that it can easily be pushed towards the Alfa end of the spectrum. And maybe the Alfa brand could take a little 'muscle' at the higher end of the range at least? Lets be honest- it couldn't be any worse for Dodge. I don't know whether it would be easier to ditch the Dodge brand and go mad to get Alfa re-established in the US market or whether the Dodge brand could take this kind of manipulation, to be honest.

I don't think it's fair to say that Dodge is only known for pick-ups and muscle cars though. Maybe that's all we know about over here but the Neon was a fairly prolific car, not forgetting the Intrepid, Stratus etc.

saintly78 July 1, 2009 5:31 PM

Alfa Romeo Arna all over again...

Mark Tisshaw July 1, 2009 5:49 PM

Good point. I think the car market that emerges out of the current financial situation is going to be all about cost and compromise.

This will certainly be the case with Fiat. But Fiat shouldn't be messing around with brands like Alfa. A Dodge/Lanica tie-up would make far more sense in my eyes.

But I trust Marchionne will make the right call. As you rightly point out, Alfa Nitros aren't likely.

It's going to be a very interesting story to follow, not least because of the passion and loyalty shown to brands such as Dodge and Alfa.

Pol Medhi July 1, 2009 6:19 PM

Dodge and Alfa Romeo are like chalk and cheese. But what I think is Mr Marchionne is being clever by 'similarising' the brands. That is because Dodge is at the wrong end of the eco-spectrum and he wants to slow poison Dodge somehow. Never-the-less  what I really want is that all future Alfas must be high quality cars with rear-wheel drive standard and I am including the Mito as well. If Fiat cannot do that then Mr Marchionne its time you put Alfa on the block.

glorfindel July 1, 2009 6:52 PM

I Marchionne was speaking of Dodge of the future: his intentions is to built new cars more coherent with a sporty-image of the Dodge brand. Doing this would put Dodge very close to Alfa.

And I think he is really right.

glorfindel July 1, 2009 7:01 PM

OMG. My comment was so bad-written... Sorry!

david RS July 1, 2009 7:14 PM

Thank you to have spoken about the Alfa Arna! I don't remember it in France...

It was chronologically between the Alfasud and the 33.

It was based on a Nissan with Alfasud engines (dixit Wiki...)

Later the '33' were based on the Alfasud.

jackjflash July 1, 2009 11:58 PM

Chrysler has been wandering in the wilderness for a long time, I find it odd that Daimler owned them but takes no responsibility or blame for the state the company was in when they left town under cover of darkness. The bean counters who took over were just patching a sinking ship, harvesting what they could without regard for the employees or company in general. Who knows how this will pan out; if they utilize the engineers and workforce and everyone contributes it could work. If Fiat were to squash every suggestion out of hand and supply hand me down platforms like Merc did they are sure to fail. That being said I can’t think of one car in the Chrysler lineup that I would want to see in Europe. A new platform with Italian flair and American muscle would be very interesting indeed, I‘ll take my Alpha spider with a hemi please.

Fred Dagg July 2, 2009 1:05 AM

Alpha :(

Alfa :)

sportwagon July 2, 2009 8:42 AM

Dodge muscle cars? The only really iconic American muscle cars were the Mustang and the GTO. Surely Dodge are only known for are large pick-up trucks for builders and people who pretend to be cowboys at the weekend.

By all means use Fiat underpinnings to replace the present lack-lustre car range, but surely the economies of scale come from reducing the number of brands, eg GM.

So how about : Fiat - down to earth good value cars with a bit of character, Alfa Romeo - sporting cars with a lot of character, Chrysler - large cars for the US market, Dodge - trucks SUVs. This covers all the main market segments with no overlap and leaves each brand with  a clear identity.

I am available to help develop this idea, my vast fee would soon appear a bargain!

A R Chen July 2, 2009 10:01 AM

Could it be perhaps that some of the message was lost in the translation from Italian to English, or had Marchionne actually been speaking in English, which in itself could cause a misunderstanding or two?

I must agree with Mark from the perspective that I do not see a buyer considering an Alfa-Romeo, also considering a Dodge/Chrysler as a close alternative.

Unless the Chrysler Crossfire is considered a close rival to the Alfa Romeo Brera, or the Chrysler 300C is considered a Alfa Romeo 166 rival.  In these last 2 examples, it is probably the old Mercedes-Benz underpinnings that would place the Chryslers in contention in the first place.

With their current lineup, Chrysler's range has very limited appeal outside of the Americas.  Even in Australia, where Chrysler once had rivals to the Ford Falcon and full-size Holdens, Chrysler now offers a rebadged Mitsubishi sedan instead!

Interestingly, both brands struggle to exist in Asia, which is where the fastest sales growth is going to be in the next decade.

Nicko22 July 2, 2009 10:43 AM

Oh, I dunno. There are some similarities between the brands. They're both just as poorly made as each other, for one!  

montgomery July 2, 2009 11:47 AM

"Oh, I dunno. There are some similarities between the brands. They're both just as poorly made as each other, for one! "

Yawn..........

brinardi July 2, 2009 1:53 PM

I think this is simply a piece of economic pragmatism from Marchionne. The relaunching of Alfa in the US would doubtless involve a hefty marketing spend so using the Dodge name to sell rebadged Alfas would allow Fiat to sidestep the brand-building stage. I don't think we'll be seeing Alfa-branded Dodges over here somehow though...

Aviva CC 1st XI July 3, 2009 9:05 PM

Mark,

This sort of sensationalism really grinds my gears. The difference between the cars in question is negligable at most. This sort of petty, sub standard journalism would be far better suited to the local press and not to a well respected national institution.  Surely a better point of discussion would ponder your thoughts on the newly unveiled Ferrari FXX?

Warmest regards

RS_Inc July 4, 2009 2:39 PM

Grinds My Gears... Summed it up really Aviva you numpty. This is a blog, not a Feature, Story or Insider piece. And by being so allows it's writer to be jovial and opinionated on a subject. Things that just will not cut it in a magazine article. 

Newly unveiled FXX? Have you been watching Top Gear re-runs on Dave? The FXX has been out for about 2 years now; the 599XX is new, but there's little more to be said on the matter as any car nut would know. 

Interesting blog though, I believe the most a Dodge/Alfa tie in would or should come to is developing and sharing of new MultiAir V6 engines and a new Rear Drive Platform for 159, 166, Charger, Challenger & Chrysler 300C replacements, plus a smaller 200C C-Class fighter and Dodge spin-off. All done VW stylee - here's a platform engines and other greasy bits - go play. 

Aviva CC 1st XI July 5, 2009 5:16 PM

RS_Inc,

You may aswell have written that in chinese because

a) i dont have a clue what your running on about and

b)I dont care.

x