Autocar - First for car news and reviews

dillonsamben June 17, 2009 10:52 AM

I honestly don't know and neither will anyone else, but if they have the collective balls, the passion, the resolve and not too many number crunching accountants to contend with (oft the deathnell of many a business) they could well win through.

I am still the firm believer that some kind of tie up with Subaru could well help out as well with the development of new models of a mutual basis.

mail@davidlong.info June 17, 2009 10:53 AM

Such a merger would have caused a good deal of head-scratching in good times, and in the present climate surely makes no more sense than if, say, Morgan had mounted a rescue bid for Vauxhall.

W124 June 17, 2009 11:45 AM

It's an insane idea, absolutley nuts from top to tail. And for that reason... I'm out.  

N0077666 June 17, 2009 12:17 PM

"It's an insane idea, absolutley nuts from top to tail. And for that reason... I'm out."

About 120ish years ago an insane german chap called Karl Benz  decided to strap an engine he invented onto a tricycle, years earlier he struggled for backers and finance, bet they are all turning in their graves now!  Moral of the story, just because an idea is insane doesn't mean it is pointless!  What about that first man who ventured beyond the cave and over the hill, bet his cave girl called him insane!

N0077666 June 17, 2009 12:20 PM

Oh and good luck to them, I think there could be a whole lot of positive fall out from this merger.  In a recent issue of evo magazine reviewing the biofuel Koenigsegg, there was a little side story of a camless saab been tested in their factory, offering better power, torque, consumption and refinement.  The world needs a car maker ready to push the boundaries, and a company such as Koenigsegg ready to invest in bio-fuel for a supercar (10 years ago would have been laughing stock!), and investigate camless engines is the right direction.

Phinehas June 17, 2009 2:16 PM

If I were in Sweden, I'd be very happy about this. It's not a universal fact, but it's a fairly good rule of thumb that foreign owners do not bode well for a national car manufacturer -and Norwegian isn't really foreign. When things are good, all fine and dandy, but when they get tough, there is no incentive to keep the name or the workforce going. Now Saab's workers can say to its new owners, 'we know where you live.' This is a big incentive and will give the Swedish government good reason to want to protect what it will see as Swedish interests - and why shouldn't it? Of course, it's not a given that the arrangement will succeed, but Saab never was the brand that GM saw it as (a posh and very slightly odd Opel), so nothing could be worse than that. Unless Halfords bought them of course.

I'm not in Sweden, but still hope they do well.

theop June 17, 2009 2:41 PM

its a good question indeed Chas... Commercially it may end up in tears, given the inexperience and the size of Kegg, but surely the end product will be better perhaps? I mean, between a GM appliance for the road and any other European car maker, surely a true and honest petrolhead would go for the latter any day...

I think the important fact in the story lies with this statemnet I quote from you:

"You can see why the Swedish government is so keen on domestic ownership "

It's a speculated statement, which when I made in this very forum (trying to find it btw - is there a search function?) about a year ago (pre Lehman and the implosion of credit) that GM was going down and Saab being the most valuable marque they actually own as a label meant that surely the Swedes will want it back, I became the recipient of a great amount of ridicule and open laughter by the regular readership and contributors on this forum...

Well, here we are....  Saab is big news in a small country like Sweden. Not as big as Volvo, but big nevertheless... Anyone who knows the Scandies or has worked there or with them, would have come to this conclusion... Saab won't die, regardless of who, what runs it. Koenigsegg today, ABC Ltd tomorrow, whatever.

So, let us all hope they can make a decent car now, regardless of how profitable they 'll be (my guess is not at all).

Uncle Mellow June 17, 2009 7:21 PM

Interesting that Saab will be Swedish again , which will probably be good enough reason for many folk to buy them , while Volvo will not be Swedish and may not even be European in future. Which marque would you put your money on for survival ?

manicm June 17, 2009 8:14 PM

Chas, your comparison with Cerberus (Chrysler's major stakeholder until now) is meaningless. They never built cars while Koenigsegg do.

And if the Swede supercar shop can't get it right who will? Technically I'm sure they will rise to the challenge of making cost-effective mainstream cars.

If anything they will lend the Saab brand some badly needed kudos after the tragic 16 year old GM debacle.

jsr123 June 17, 2009 10:27 PM

While Saab hardly had a cue of interested buyers squabbling for ownership of it's beleagured lot, I think the suits at Trollhatten made a wise decision in letting Koenigsegg take the reins.

For too long, Saab's product range has lacked the design and engineering pedigree that allowed cars like the Original 900 to flourish. In the halycon days of the eighties, Saab gave us unique and inspired ergonomic delights like the handbrake which resembled an aircraft take off lever (a nod to the marque's aeronautical heritage) and huge air vents which looked great and worked as well you expected.

While GM kept these interior marvels in subsequent models, Trollhatten were shackled with their ageing Cavalier & Mk I Vectra platforms for the nineties 900 and later, minorly revised 9-3. Great, what a treat! The supposedly radical 9-3 of 2003 with it's passive four wheel steer rear suspension and costly city slicker ad campaign fared little better, owing much of it's hardware to the Mk II Vectra. Don't get me wrong, these honest, motorway hacks were fine cars for their target market but dynamically they could never cash the cheques that Saab's sporty, suave image continued to write! Yes, the current 9-3 rag top is built to last, quite attractive and reliable but lacking any definitive USP over the competition. Would anyone shopping for a cab. in the last two years choose one over a BMW 3 Series CC?! Not likely!!!  

Under Koenigsegg, I think Saab will gain the passion so clearly present in this low volume Swede supercar shop and so clearly lacking under GM's control. Inheriting a strong range of cars is the first step to a successful future but the test will be in transfering low volume specialist 'know how' to mass manufacturing processes. Expanding the workforce, employing seriously savvy and experienced plant managers and installing state of the art tooling is key. If they can get this right - and the facelifted version of the next gen. 9-5 depends on it - I think we can look forward to a far more prosperous 16 years for the Swedish marque than those that have just passed :)

mail@davidlong.info June 18, 2009 11:28 AM

"Norwegian isn't really foreign"

This person has clearly never met a Norwegian: a more independently-minded people is hard to imagine and by absolutely no means do the people of Bergen or Oslo see themselves as some kind of Stockholmer or generalised Scandinavian.

Phinehas June 18, 2009 2:31 PM

"This person has clearly never met a Norwegian"

Yes I have. I work with Swedes and Norwegians (along with practically every other European and Latin American nationality) and know all about their attitudes towards each other. But they aren't as divided as would make this venture untenable -it's not exactly going to be a mixed business, it is? Basically, a lot of the money comes from Norwegians. Besides, Swedes and Norwegians are very capable of working together sensibly once given a common goal - I see it all the time. For this reason, they are a lot less 'foreign' than Americans, Indians or Chinese would be.

tony2x June 18, 2009 2:54 PM

Well considering SAAB started off as a sort of skunk-works project by a bunch of bored aviation engineers who following WWII found themselves with idle hands and minds, the result being the SAAB 92001.  60 or so years on and SAAB have had a reputation (sadly diminishing over time) for making quirky, interesting vehicles that appeal to those that don't want the same German premium car as everyone else.

SAAB has an incredibly loyal core bunch of customers, myself included, I've had 11 of them over the years, who over time have watched one of the few truly individual car companies be beaten down by the General into a producer of rebadged second rate Vauxhall products.  The GM900 was an abomination (1988 Cavalier chassis anyone?!) and things only got slightly better with the 2nd generation 9-3 that came along in the early 2000s.  I stuck with the brand through thick and thin and found the current 9-3 to be a flawed but agreeable and ultimately satisfying car especially in Convertible form.  Since moving to the US I switched allegiance to Subaru, who for me seemed to represent the sort of values that made me a devout SAAB man in the first place.

Under Koenigsegg's stewardship I'm hoping that they will return to being the manufacturer that follows the path less travelled.  Perhaps it'll mean a resurrection of the Saab variable compression engine that promised 1.6 litre economy with 3.0 performance and given that GM finally seemed to get the message that SAAB owners aren't looking for just another Audi/BMW/Mercedes clone with the upcoming 9-5.

With the new product line just around the corner, they are starting off in a stronger position than ever before but it remains to be seen if they can attract some people away from the obvious choices whilst still remaining true to SAAB's quirky, individualistic roots.

I for one will be voting with my wallet and can see a nice XWD twin turbocharged 9-5 estate sitting outside my house very soon.  I do that with the full knowledge that these may be the last SAABs produced, but if we all think like that, then SAAB is doomed to failure isn't it?  Being independent will mean that SAAB can innovate once more.  And granted, it didn't really work out for MG Rover but you can't argue with the fact that the final products of the MG brand (BC - Before China) squeezed some innovation out of a tiny budget.  Christian von Koenigsegg and his partners seem to have deeper pockets than the Longbridge four and they have already proven to me that they can design beautiful cars (i'd have a CCR over a Zonda any day of the week) so this SAAB fan is ever hopeful that we'll return to the glory days of the Classic 900 sooner than you might think.

mail@davidlong.info June 19, 2009 9:14 AM

"They are a lot less 'foreign' than Americans, Indians or Chinese would be."

So what are you saying, that maybe Morgan should have taken over Vauxhall?

jsr123 June 20, 2009 1:46 PM

Clearly, loyal devotees of the brand - and new customers - want something different to the Audi/BM/Merc. triumverate but previous models left buyers woefully shortchanged. Take the 1998 9-5 which has barely changed in 11 years and is still on sale! At all speeds over badly surfaced bitumen both primary and secondary rides were flawed and at high speeds in fast motorway sweepers, lateral body movements were poorly contained. The car also demonstrated worrying levels of pitch and dive under hard braking at pretty much any speed.  

GM's pricing strategy was even more problematic, as V6 versions were priced at 5 series money. At this level, the car was seriously outclassed by all German rivals and some Europeans (step forward Pug's ungainly but quirky 607 and Vauxhall's vastly underated Omega).

Naturally, the sweetspot was further down the range where one of Saab's less thirsty, light-pressure turbo four cyclinder 9-5s - also available in all 9-3s - was better value.

Designed in-house by Saab, these thrifty, characterful blocks added to the brand's quirkiness. I hope Trollhatten's engineers give us more of these under Koenigsegg. To my ears, they sound sweeter than all the German's four cyclinder petrol engines. Good riddance to the ageing, GM diesels - which are crude beside BMW's third gen. common rail blocks and Honda's CDTI units - and second rate chassis.

From what I hear, the latest Vauxhall Insignia chassis is a peach so at least the next gen. 9-5 will wade into battle with a well-equipped dynmanic arsenal to fend of rivals.

By the time the next gen. 9-3 is ready for launch (which can't come soon enough!) hopefully the Swedish Supercar Shop will have the confidence, experience and know how, to inject some supercar ingredients into a mass production chassis.

I have always viewed Saab as a European alternative to Subaru, with a similar intended target market. Under the stewardship of Koenigsegg, lets hope they get the product to match, if not beat them :)