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Wed
Oct 15 2008

Are we being serviced?

James Ruppert

 

Probably not, is the short answer. The media seems full of stories about how thrifty and careful we have all become as financial belts get tightened. Rather than chucking away that worn pair of shoes we’re getting them resoled, and we’re getting the computer repaired rather than binning it. So presumably the same holds true of our cars?  

Not a bit of it. The fact is that you can chuck your clothes away and buy replacements for £1.50 from Primark, whereas investing enough to give a motor a proper once-over is a far more serious bit of spending. And as people get increasingly reluctant to pay for anything they don’t have to, more and more people are skipping scheduled services.

A chance conversation with an important mover and shaker in the warranty industry led to the revelation that one of the largest networks of servicing centres, effectively the Netto of the garage world, is filled with little more than tumbleweed at the moment. Business was down by 20 per cent year-on-year when I started this blog, and the chances are it’s rather more now.

That’s a worry for downmarket car buyers like me, who will find a big hole in the service history. Obviously that could lead to increase in sales for the John Bull printing set company.

You also need to be careful at the upper end of the market. Don’t ever rely on a Prancing Horse stamp to be the guarantee that everything is as Enzo intended. Talking to a 456 specialist a while back it’s clear that even some Ferrari owners will have the bare minimum done to get the smudge and skimp on work on things like brakes and suspension.

The problem is that most modern cars are so tolerant of missed services. Thirty years ago a Morris Minor would seize solid if it’s nipples weren’t lovingly greased on a twice-weekly basis, or the sump wasn’t emptied and refreshed every 3000 miles.

But if things carry on like this, in a year’s time all cars will be running in limp-home mode, with two space savers on the front axle and some sticks of liquorice where the wipers used to be.

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About James Ruppert

Used to sell BMWs, but he's no yuppie; has a '64 Mini Cooper in his garage and a '57 BSA Bantam in his house. Has bought and sold hundreds of used cars, and he isn't finished yet.

Comments

theop October 15, 2008 12:41 PM

I think servicing  is overrated.

I am not by all means implying that it should be skipped, its just that modern cars as you mention, can take a lot more milage that they used to and are made from a standardised product (or sum of products) of non serviceable parts. I mean oil and filters aside, what else needs servicing in a modern car? Nothing. It breaks? you chuck...  Electronic (fill the gap) gone? New one please.... Springs and dampers? Out the old, in the new... Heating element on seats gone cold? New seat at £750 please (ridiculous on a 10 yo Audi A3 worth 3k at best)... No effort to repair anything and no one cares...

Its been a common complain in modern countries like the UK where fleets are young and cars are modern that servicing has become a "chuck and replace" assembly job and that there are no more proper technicians/ingenious proper spanner mechanics any more... That is correct I reckon...

So my point to you James is:

Where is  the extra value taking any regular tinbox car to its proper servicing agent? They know nothing more than the garage round the corner that can source 2nd hand parts on top of anything else and as far  as depreciation savings? This is got to be a joke...

When a brand new BMW 120  with extras is worth 24k and a 2yo one with 7k miles is worth 11.... Do I actually care if i ll save the odd 500 quid on a "sytner stamp" vs a "birdie birdie nam nam" - apols the pun - indian chap around the corner who ll do any job at 20% of the cost? No is the answer... I ll run the 120 to the ground in 5-6 years (any official car will be worth 3 pence by then anyway) and then bin it...

Not to be bothered about 2nd hand values or reselling.... Just bin them.. Now, thats what I call luxury...

On a final/other note: Has anyone ever noticed (of course you have) how desperately obsolete electronic driver toys become with the years? I was taking a ride Iin a friends' 52 reg SL500 the other day... its SatNav and other gismos are so backwards and badly weathered.. (more like this 2004 laptop I am typing this from...Awful..)..  Looks like 100 years old....

I think these gismos will be the Achilles heel of any modern car.... (996 dashboards with PCM and bulky telephone handsets) also another reminder of what was cool in 1999 is totally uncool now... In comparison a plain - all over the shop - 993 manual everything-just-radio or a boxy SL500 from 1997 with the old fashioned becker stereos and switch gear, both look they could last 200 years....

jerry99 October 15, 2008 12:45 PM

Perhaps people need to rely less on the paperwork? I only buy an old car after spending 20 or 30 minutes looking at it very thorougly to see for myself how many new parts are fitted and whether it seems to have had the fluids changed as often as I would like.

As I often wield the spanners myself on my cars this makes sense but of course if I do not hold on until its time to scrap it I lose out when reselling it. Many Morris 1000 owners did things themselves and kept their cars going as well as an average garage.

The last car I bought is a bit of an enigma as the paperwork does not seem to tell the full story but so far my thorough pre-purcahse visual check has proved accurate in terms of the mechanical condition

James Ruppert October 15, 2008 1:42 PM

We are all on the same side here and personally I would never darken a main agent's door again, mostly because I run very old out date and unwarrantable vehicles. I think the problem is not even being bothered to change the oil which the life blood of the car. I agree when an element in the heated seat goes, so what, I'm not going to bother. And yes I do agree that when a car gets to the end of its natural, get a few bob or throw it away. Best practical car in the world is my Land Rover which has no sensors whatsoever apart from bottom. Analogue cars make huge sense and an old merc even with some electrickery is much preferred to anything more complicated. It is the basics that people need to keep on top of and keeping their vehicle safe so they don't hit us head on...

horseandcart October 15, 2008 1:50 PM

Two answers to this problem James. First, supply and demand. Lack of demand - tumbleweed in service bays - cut prices, no, slash prices. Goes across the board from the mobile mechanic's labour rates to the prestige marque franchised dealer. Especially the franchised dealers and the 'specialists' with their £60-100/hr labor rates. How long more can franchises continue to charge £140+/hour for 'labour'?

Secondly, if things economically are so bad or are about to become so bad that there is no 'market-clearing' price, i.e. cash/money/funny money credit is so short that even if the national servicing centre chain dropped its prices to say trade cost of parts plus flat rate of £50 all in for labour regardless of length of job, then what you hint at here and fear will become commonplace - not just unserviced cars running around eating their mechanicals but positively dangerous cars running around from non-functioning brake lights/indicators/one headlamp to cars that fail in emergency stops or skew to the side under heavy braking and so on. I think it's what's technically called a third world sh1thole situation in the socio-economic jargon. Britain and its car parc had a semblance to this for much of the 1970s and 80s - in the ex-industrial areas. How quickly the metropolitan elite forget. Thing is, back then, in the 70s especially, there were less than half the number of cars on the road, more people walked or cycled and what cars there were for Mr Average were 0-60 in 20secs jobs and max 80mph. Think of the absolute carnage that can/will occur when some ar$ehole winds up a modern car to terminal velocity and has brake failure, steering failure or suspension collapse. Scares the sh1t out of me.

James Ruppert October 15, 2008 2:14 PM

Franchises, especially the £200 mob survive on company money really, but as you say for how much longer? Yes there is an underclass which already forgets to MOT and Insure their cars who are a constant threat to the majority of us who care about ourselves and others. Looking after your car is commonsense and sadly some don't have that and there is little that we can do to force them to look after what can be a lethal piece of machinery, without getting all scaremongery and health and safety about it all.

Latebreaker October 15, 2008 2:40 PM

James, I agree that cars should be serviced regualry, by either a dealer or ya local garage because of safety. If the majority of road deaths or accidents were found out to be the result of poorly maintained cars then shouldnt there be a law stating that cars should be serviced according to the car service schdule.

Afterall these kind of things only become important when lives are lost, this shouldnt be the case.

horseandcart October 15, 2008 2:44 PM

With all these un-MOT'd, uninsured, non-maintained lethal weapons on the road it's a shame those safety cameras can't spot unsafe vehicles. Funny that. Or maybe I'm missing something!? Or maybe the government will bring out a new directive that allows vehicles with bald tyres and non-working lights to be exempt from safety camera fines due to them being more enviromental - less resistance from smooth tyres means less fuel consumption and less lighting means less load on fuel guzzling alternators - effing genius; will contact R.Brunstrom asap with suggestion.

ESP deactivated October 15, 2008 3:52 PM

Even for most respectable citizens, servicing tends to be something that just happens when a car fails an MOT. A mate with a 'X' plate Mondeo has run it for 50,000 miles doing nothing more than changing the oil (himself) at 12,000 mile intervals. The only other attention it gets is MOT fail points (tyres, brake discs, the odd light bulb). When it breaks properly he'll bin it and move onto another £2000 clunker. There must be hundreds of thousands of drivers out there doing the same thing...

theop October 15, 2008 4:24 PM

We are all on the same page here indeed.... I just had a go in my morning rant about how ridiculous main agent service costs are....

The fact that I paid £250 for the annual service of my 3yo Vespa 125 the other week (London main dealer) did not help the morning mood.. I ve been had and I hate this feeling of idiocy...

Anyway, regardless the point remains that servicing is v expensive at main dealers, especially for people like me who always keep 1 good car/"pride and joy" sort of thing that gets 100% specialist attention and will never be sold (kind of) and also maintains a decent daily runner (for wifey!).

I always buy that last sort (currently an 02 A3 tdi with 70k miles) when at least 3yo aiming at 40% of the original price or less. I am good with cars and with 20mins poking and a torchlight know more or less what I see... As Jerry mentioned above, I do not trust paperwork (though I always check it) and neither do I trust main dealer service stamps - they do not affect the price I d be willing to pay whatsoever. In fact I d rather have 4 brand new tyres ( I hate paying for tyres) and pads all round and no main dealer stamps in the book!

I take the point that the majority of the buying public who buy ordinary cars ( I call them Cargiant dudes - no pun intended) do not know a peach from a lemon nor sometimes do they have the time to go and poke around.. This is a problem and perhaps one of the reasons why Main Dealer means so much in residual value terms and the prices come back to bite all of us..

ps: post Vespa service I am now planning to do nothing on it for its lifetime apart from oil/filters and tyres/brakes and see how long it takes for its little valve to hit the piston.. No adjustments whatsoever I ll run it to the end and put it in the skip afterwards! £250!

James Ruppert October 15, 2008 4:52 PM

Goodness me 250 quid for a Vespa that is taking the p. They can't be much more complicated than mowers. However mower servicing near me is almost a three figure sum and there is only one spark plug. Hopefully there will be a campaign for real servicing now, which is basically do it yourself, but the OBDs now mean you need a bloomin computer to reset everything and with complicated cars you need complicated boxes I could go on...

dillonsamben October 15, 2008 5:09 PM

Almost all servicing is overpriced.

When I lived in the UK, 6 years ago my village paid £60 to have it's £90 (new cost) Yard King Briggs & Stratton lawn mower serviced.

All the work that was needed to drain off 1/2 ltr of oil, wash out a sponge air filter and scrape off the *** underneath the blessed thing....... When I used to service the mower myself, it took me less than 20 mins to do the whole blessed thing !!

So it is not only car buyers who are getting ripped off by the cost of servicing, it would appear to be everyone.

Now come on James, where is the article about the cost of servicing (for exactly the same service) from throughout the EEC and let us see once and for all how the British are getting stuffed ?

dillonsamben October 15, 2008 5:09 PM

Almost all servicing is overpriced.

When I lived in the UK, 6 years ago my village paid £60 to have it's £90 (new cost) Yard King Briggs & Stratton lawn mower serviced.

All the work that was needed to drain off 1/2 ltr of oil, wash out a sponge air filter and scrape off the *** underneath the blessed thing....... When I used to service the mower myself, it took me less than 20 mins to do the whole blessed thing !!

So it is not only car buyers who are getting ripped off by the cost of servicing, it would appear to be everyone.

Now come on James, where is the article about the cost of servicing (for exactly the same service) from throughout the EEC and let us see once and for all how the British are getting stuffed ?

dillonsamben October 15, 2008 5:09 PM

Almost all servicing is overpriced.

When I lived in the UK, 6 years ago my village paid £60 to have it's £90 (new cost) Yard King Briggs & Stratton lawn mower serviced.

All the work that was needed to drain off 1/2 ltr of oil, wash out a sponge air filter and scrape off the *** underneath the blessed thing....... When I used to service the mower myself, it took me less than 20 mins to do the whole blessed thing !!

So it is not only car buyers who are getting ripped off by the cost of servicing, it would appear to be everyone.

Now come on James, where is the article about the cost of servicing (for exactly the same service) from throughout the EEC and let us see once and for all how the British are getting stuffed ?

TegTypeR October 15, 2008 5:12 PM

For reference James, Draper Tools have started doing a comprehensive OBD reader / reset tool for around the £200 mark.

It's simple to use and worth its weight in gold to any DIY mechanic.  I have suppied quite a few of these to cab companies who are fed up with paying £50 to dealers everytime they need a diagnosis / reset on their cars.

For reference the part number is 43913.

James Ruppert October 15, 2008 5:27 PM

Thanks Teg for that, although some more complex vehicles have two sets of OBDs to interrogate at the same time so you need a seriously expensive bit of kit for that. You have to be careful as to which one you get and exactly what it will tell you. My local garage spends quite a few grand a year on this stuff now and it does seem daft to use a reset tool after changing a light bulb.

We still live in rip off Britain it seems where servicing is concerned.

stuart74 October 15, 2008 7:12 PM

Whilst some servicing is high priced, actually most of it when you work it out is reasonably fair, particularly in the volume arena. We pay people £60 an hour for servicing because we either haven't the time, the skills or the tools to do it ourselves.

Working it out on a someone earning £25K a year they probably earn £15 a hour (ish). Lets say they service their own car - it takes them 3 hours to service the car (not that skilled so have to take their time), add on some parts and a few tools plus the cost of driving to get the parts and it probably cost you the same, around £60 ish.

It is no different from us buying pre-packed food that we microwave, we could do it ourselves, but we can't be bothered! We are becoming time precious nowadays and people will pay extra to have more of their own time...

horseandcart October 15, 2008 7:50 PM

stuart74, what you say is true and from an individual's point of view economically rational. However, what you say also highlights and illustrates what has become of the UK economy in a macro sense. This service economy - where we pay each other to do things or provide 'services' - will lead and is leading to the ruination of our real standard of living. Real wealth comes from increasing producivity or efficiency, the old assemby line example of mass production under Henry Ford if you like, but in UK particularly, having dismssed most of our industry, we now rely upon washing each other's air or minding each other's chidren or as you say cooking each other food or serving hot beverages etc. We kid ourselves that this is real wealth generating activity and therefore charging £3 for a hot drink or £50 for a hair-do or £100 for a meal is actually the sign of high living standards. What it actually is, and why £200/hour labour charges in main dealers is insanity, is simply monetary inflation and a spiral downwards  for all but the truly rich, less than 1%. We think we're becoming richer, but all that's happening is real wages are declining, the rate of inflation for services increasing and the hours we need to work to pay for vehicle repairs, lawn mower servicing, you name it, increasing all the time. It is I'm afraid lunacy and we are beginning to witness the inevitable end to such an ill-founded economic system that needs/ed exponential amounts of credit or debt in truth to keep it all spinning in the air. Remove the credit and see how much true wealth as opposed to notional, inflated asset prices and fanciful service charging/fees exists.

James Ruppert October 15, 2008 9:36 PM

I'm glad the debate has decended to this, the truth! Once upon a time we had a car industry that actually made and exported real goods. Now we don't make much of anything and the cars we do make are for foreign owned companies who can take the profits, transfer production elsewhere and basically do what they please. This is the reality of modern industry free Britain.

Peter Cavellini October 15, 2008 9:51 PM

How can a garage charge £50 more for a tyre fitted, not on their premises but half a mile up the road?, my BMW dealer did,or a hand brake adjustment- £3 part and twenty pound labour charge!or a rear bumper for another BMW which the driver found £80 cheaper twelve miles down the road,or how about the Porsche caymen driver who got a puncture and was then told he had to have four new tyres!(£800). Now tell me whose STILL getting a hard time!

theop October 16, 2008 10:27 AM

I agree with horseandcart on the brief economic thesis above.... and crunch time is indeed with us.. The problem is (in an economic perspective) that from here to the point where prices for services from a hot cuppa to a hair do as mentioned above are falling, we are going to get the long gap of businesses and people falling off the map and going bankrupt. Trust me , there will be plenty of car dealers going south and big Prime chains downsizing...

ps: I am reliably informed that Porsche Mayfair had sold 0 cars from 1-9 October... - they apparently also have a rising inventory of 200 used ones - up from the usual 30

James Ruppert October 16, 2008 10:44 AM

Thanks Theop, you are right on all counts, plus I will be having some doomy prestige reports in the next magazine or two, it is very tough out there and Porsche, Ferrari and Aston are all in trouble short term and possibly longer....

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