Autocar - First for car news and reviews

Quattro369 October 14, 2008 1:43 PM

Where are the diesels? They wont stand a proper chance until some are introuduced. Lexus chose the hybrid option instead but even they had to give in to pressure and release the IS220d in pursuit of sales.

sierra October 14, 2008 3:27 PM

Lexus sales down 29% YTD; 44% last month - given that Nissan have been talking about releasing this range in UK for about 5+ years, could they have got their timing anymore wrong?

csmith319 October 14, 2008 3:32 PM

These are great cars - I've experienced them (and other Nissans not sold over here) in the States and we're really missing out.

Usually, great cars win out in the market - look at the nissan 350Z or Mazda RX8 - not diesels but selling well. If Infiniti has realistic sales targets, a lack of diesel isn't too much of a disadvantage in the short term.

I'll definitely be looking closely when they arrive.

ThwartedEfforts October 14, 2008 5:35 PM

There's constant talk about Europe "missing out" on some great cars, but whenever one goes on sale here the reviews turn scathing and the forecourts remain empty - all while our manufacturers open US factories to help keep up with demand. Like every American barge before it, almost every Infiniti model looks stunning on paper - every one a handsome, big ass, big engined, comfort oriented mile muncher - but the reality is that Learjet-like running costs and depreciation mean only the wealthy can afford them. And if you're rolling in money, would you rather be seen in a Nissan or in a Mercedes?

Without a diesel in the line-up I'll be surprised if they sell more than a dozen...

amith October 14, 2008 6:12 PM

launching a new brand has become a joke for these low class manufactures a prestigious brand means many things come to life it should have great history these cars are nothing but modified nissans if i had the money say 30k i would definetly go for the great german brands howerever good nissan/infiniti may be.nissan is a good brand but taking on merc/bwm/audi is joke

HiltonH October 15, 2008 2:01 AM

Unfair, sir. Infinitis are based on bespoke front-mid engine rear drive platform, the more sophisticated version of what's under the 350Z.

The big diesel engine will be the new V6 lump just launched by Renault and due in the new Laguna coupe early next year.

Steve's right, they are really nice cars. But then they are based on very sound engineering.

julianphillips October 15, 2008 10:15 AM

"Where are the diesels? They wont stand a proper chance until some are introduced. Lexus chose the hybrid option instead but even they had to give in to pressure and release the IS220d in pursuit of sales."  Diesel diesel diesel!  Change the bloody record!  Firstly there are plenty of petrol buyers out there in the premium market, and even in the non-premium market (like me).  Secondly as the shortages of diesel supply into the South East of the UK continues to increase, the differential between diesel and petrol prices is likely to increase or stay as wide as it currently is, meaning petrol is not the terrible option it once was.  Thirdly, as an example, the EX37 does 27mpg which ain't too bad for a petrol considering the excellent performance figures.  Fourth - what other mid-sized 4x4 does 0-60 in 6 seconds plus 150mph?  Whilst losing only 10mpg to say the X3 diesel or Freelander diesel.  Fifth - the sale figures are miniscule over the five year period, in any case during which time the diesels will have been introduced at some stage.  These are niche products, no doubt, but I don't see them having any problem whatsoever hitting their modest targets.  As for the UK market, we still live in a world where the car market is split 50:50 diesel to petrol.  The split in the 4x4, coupe and exec segments obviously differ significantly from the split in the supermini and mini segments, but nevertheless there remains a strong demand for petrol vehicles at many price points and the fuel pricing situation will only encourage this demand to grow.  Plus there's the fact that diesel premiums are NOWHERE near those predicted by the industry guides 5 years ago, particularly in the lower medium segements, hence the predicted used car market demand for diesels never materialised and there is over supply of diesels in many segments of the secondary market.  OK, you can shift a BMW X3 3.0 diesel reasonably quickly, but ask dealers how they are coping with trying to justify the £500-£700 premium they are asking credit-crunched families to pay for TDCi Focus's and the like when a 1.6 petrol is currently a far more attractive proposition to many of them.  Rant over, I'm just a bit obsessed with debunking the current fanatical diesel debate.  It ain't even very clean!

TXBRIT October 15, 2008 10:01 PM

asmith - you need to stop believing that BMW, Mercedes and Audi are "great brands". Mercedes in particular has terrible relaibility problems of late such that their sales in the US have plummeted. I have owned Audi's and BMW's in the recent past and now own a G37S (I live in the USA). The Infiniti is a) easily as well built b) much more reliable c) has better dealer service d) is better value for money and e) in the US, Infinit's residuals far exceed any of the three German companies cars.

I think the trouble with the UK (and I'm from there originally) is that you are all brainwashed to think that the Germans are the ultimate car manufacturers.

All you need to do is see what Nissan has done to Porsche with the GTR.

The Japs know what they are up to. Try and have an open mind.

The G37S is a luxury car with 350Z underpinnings and increased power. Oh and by the way - fully loaded in the US is around $45,000 vs $55,000 for a similarly decked out 335i Coupe. Check out the US motor magazines and see which one they picked as the better of the two cars!

csmith319 October 16, 2008 8:53 AM

There is also a big difference between what Infiniti is doing compared with other manufacturers trying to be premium - they are actually trying to makr the cars as good as - or better than BMW / Merc (lets not include Audi here, all they do is make nice interiors and the odd fast car).

My exeprience says they're succeeding.

The US is an interesting market - they accept new barnds far more readily than in Europe (which is hardly suprising given their origins as an anti-imperialist, anti-establishment independent country).

The question is - when will Europe start to accept new premium brands - its not impossible, Lexus did it, arguably with products not as right for the market as Infiniti has. Nissan have managed to cross the premium line with the Munaro and 350Z already (something which Honda, the traditional premium slanted Japanese brand has completely failed to do).

Infiniti's look different, drive great and have much much better interiors than other premium wannabe's. Diesel? Who cares - petrol's getting cleaner and more efficient; they'll come up with a diesel soon enough, but I don't think it's that important when they're only wanting to shift 25000 cars.

ThwartedEfforts October 17, 2008 11:15 AM

julian, the point is that in the luxury sector diesel models have a tendency to outsell all the petrol models combined - look at the S-Class, 7-Series, 5-Series, E-Class and XF. Without one, Infiniti will not sell many cars.

In addition, because of the UK's CO2 linked vehicle licensing bands, a diesel isn't just about paying less at the pump, less often (S320 CDI: 650 mile range, S500: 400 mile range), they also cost less to tax. This alone make them easier to sell to the used market, where savage depreciation puts them within reach of people who view £400 annually as something of a burden.

I came to the conclusion long ago that I prefer driving petrol cars, but goodness me I prefer owning diesels!

ThwartedEfforts October 17, 2008 11:40 AM

csmith319, it was precisely because of America's fixation with domestic vehicles and its perception that Japanese vehicles were puddle-jumping runabouts that the Lexus brand was contrived.

The fact that American consumers readily accept such flimflammery (Anderson's infamous survey of 2007 showed a third of them thought Lexus was an American marque) shows how easily they're won over.

If you want to aspire to all that, fine. Going on to call them "anti-imperialist" does suggest you've been living under a rock for a few years...

julianphillips October 20, 2008 9:44 AM

Thwarted Efforts - I very much appreciate your points which are well made and correct,  but your first sentence answers the issue when you say "Infiniti will not sell many cars".  My point was/is that their sales targets are so low that - although a diesel IS on its way - it is not needed to reach their European sales targets over the next 5 years.